Chinese Language

Speak Chinese - Ancient Sports in China

2009-01-31T08:45:00.001-08:00

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Ancient Sports in China

( 2008-07-08 )

Sports in ancient China were extremely rich and diversified, each with distinct features of its own. Traditional Chinese life preserving arts, in particular, combine bodily movements and mental activity in a way rarely seen in sports practised in other parts of the world. With their unique values
in promoting health and combating disease, these arts are invaluable assets to mankind.

With their unique national features, oriental charm, health-keeping and therapeutic values and entertaining effects, ancient sports form an intrinsic part of Chinese civilization. Today, they are being steadily improved on a scientific basis and have taken their place in the sporting world,
enriching the treasure house of human civilization.

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HSK - Tan Dun’s Opera “Tea” will be staged

2009-01-31T01:45:00.001-08:00

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Tan Dun’s Opera “Tea” will be staged

( 2008-06-30 )

Synopsis

Tea-- The Heart's Mirror tell us such a story: in the Tang Dynasty of ancient China, Japanese Prince Seikyo fell in love with Chinese princess Lan during his study of Tea Ceremony in China and expressed his wish to marry her. The Chinese emperor asked Seikyo to recite a tea poem and Seikyo's
excellent performance led the emperor to approve their marriage, which made the Crown Prince, elder brother of Lan, disgruntled.

Amidst a tea festival, a Persian prince offered a thousand horses in exchange for one book: Book of Tea . The Crown Prince reluctantly took out his Book of Tea for the exchange, however, Seikyo expressed doubt that this wasn't the true book shown him by its author, his teacher the Tea Sage Luyu..
Angry and jealous, the Crown Prince challenged Seikyo and vowed to sacrifice his own life if Seikyo could show him the "real" Book of Tea. Seikyo promised to end his life if proven wrong.

Then Seikyo and Lan began their journey to seek for the authentic Book of Tea. In a tea festival, they met Lu, daughter of Lu Yu. Lu announced Luyu's death and consented to give Seikyo and Lan the Book of Tea on the condition that they vowed to spread its wisdom throughout the world. As they read
it, the Crown Prince burst in and grabbed the book. A fight erupted between Seikyo and the Crown Prince. Attempting to stop the duel, Lan was mortally wounded. The crown prince was so regretful and gave his sword to Seikyo so that he could pay for her sister's death with his own life. However,
Seikyo sliced off his own hair with the sword and became a monk preaching Tea Ceremony in Japan thereafter…

Cast

Composer: Tan Dun

Writer/Lyrics: Tan Dun, Xu Ying

Director/Choreographer: Jiang Qing

Stage Design: Jiang Qing

Costume Design and Dressing: Patrizia Von Brandstein (Germany)

Lighting Design: Tommy Wang (Singapore)

Colored Glaze Design: Yang Hui-Shang (Taiwan, China)

Property Design: Thomas Lundgvist (Sweden)

Researsal Conductor: Erik Ochsner (USA)

Percussion Director: Haruka Fujii (Japan)

Background Painter: Ding Xiongquan

Multimedia Animation: Wang Qiang

Editor: Feng Hui

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* Environmental Emblem of Beijing 2008 ( 07-10 )
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* Emblem of the Beijing 2008 OYC ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Cultural Festival ( 07-10 )

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Learn mandarin - Ancient Track-and-field Sport

2009-01-24T11:53:00.001-08:00

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Ancient Track-and-field Sport

( 2008-07-07 )

In ancient China there was a fairy tale called "Kuafu Running after the Sun." Untrue as it is, the story does reflect people's admiration for great runners. Walking and running are the most fundamental abilities of man in daily life as well as in fighting. In ancient times when the means of
transport were extremely simple and crude, people attached great importance to improving their walking and running abilities.

"The quality of troops lies in speed" was one of the most important maxims in ancient Chinese art of war. Eminent strategists of all times, from Wu Qi of the Warring States Period (475-221 BC) to the Ming Dynasty patriotic general Qi Jiguang (1528-1587), required their men to "run light-footedly"
while carrying their weapons and with their coats of mail on. In ancient times, when dukes and princes traveled around in carts, their bodyguards had to run behind them. These bodyguards, called "brave warriors," were selected through stringent tests" and enjoyed high esteem.

By the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368), a long distance running race was held every year by the ruler inspecting his guards. According to a Yuan Dynasty history book titled Chuo Geng Lu, the race covered at distance of about 180 li (90 km) and the winner was awarded a silver disc while the others were
given satin of different lengths. It was to some extent like today’s marathon. This was actually a kind of cross-country race that was held at regular intervals.

This was the original form of ancient track-and-field sport in China.

　 Emblems More

* Dancing Beijing -- Beijing 2008 Olympic Emblem

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

* Beijing Paralympics Emblem ( 07-10 )
* Environmental Emblem of Beijing 2008 ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Torch Relay ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing 2008 OYC ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Cultural Festival ( 07-10 )

News More

* Museums to exhibit 1,000 national treasures
* Creating new rituals, Beijing style
* Marine mural unveiled in capital
* Illustrated Olympic giant panda story comes out
* Ten recommended Beijing shopping streets

Meet in Beijing More

* Dance Along the River during the Qingming Festival
* Concert by Macao Chinese Orchestra
* Kataklo Athletic Dance Theatre
* UK Contemporary Exhibition
* The Russia Star Ballet

Olympic on Beijing's Axis

　 Online Tour

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

| About us | E-mail | Contact |

Constructed by .cn
Copyright 2003 Ministry of Culture, P.R.China. All rights reserved

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Chinese Studies - Treasures in Shaanxi History Museum

2009-01-14T06:43:00.001-08:00

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Classics>Collection

Treasures in Shaanxi History Museum

As the seat of dozens of imperial capitals, Northwest China’s Shaanxi Province is rich in cultural relics. The Shaanxi History Museum, located in Xi’an, capital of the province, is home to over 370,000 precious relics unearthed in Shaanxi over the past years. Its collections range from bronze
wares to pottery figures, gold and silver wares and mural paintings from the Tang Dynasty (618-907) tombs. Among its precious collections, 18 pieces have been listed as national treasures.

1. Yu Ding (Bronze Tripod)

Age：Western Zhou Dynasty (about 1,100-771BC)

Height: 77 cm; Diameter: 56.5 cm

Unearthed in 1972 at Yangjia Village, Meixian County, Shaanxi

The vessel has three legs and patterns of auspicious animals carved on the surface.

This Ding was named after Yu, a Western Zhou official. 27 Chinese characters in four lines are inscribed inside the vessel, recording a king named Wang Jiang, who took back the fields he had bestowed to Shi Lu and gave them to Yu as awards. The inscription indicates the field ownership system at
that time - that is, the king was the owner of all the fields under his jurisdiction and had the right to retake or bestow them to any of his subordinates.

2. Wushi Wei Ding (Bronze Tripod)

Age：Western Zhou Dynasty

Height: 36.3 cm; Diameter: 34.3 cm

Unearthed in 1975 at Dongjia Village, Qishan County, Shaanxi

The vessel has three pillar legs, with patterns of auspicious animals carved on the surface.

207 Chinese characters in 19 lines are inscribed inside the vessel, recording a land lawsuit in the Western Zhou dynasty. In the fifth year during the reign of Emperor Zhougongwang (922- 900BC), a man named Qiu Wei reported to the ruling officials that he had a land dispute with his neighbor
Bangjunli. At last, it was judged that part of the land in dispute belonged to Qiu Wei. This inscription indicates the land system underwent changes in the middle of the Western Zhou Dynasty. At that time, some land belonged to individuals, rather than the king. However, the government still
controlled land transfer among citizens.

This vessel is of great importance to research on the land system during the Western Zhou dynasty.

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HSK - Artists celebrate China-Australia ties with exhibition

2009-01-13T06:21:00.001-08:00

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Artists celebrate China-Australia ties with exhibition

A group of artists, who have had experiences in both China and Australia, put their works on display at an exhibition in Hong Kong on May 13, with some reflecting upon their experiences of the cross-cultural interaction.

Lindy Lee, an Australian-born Chinese artist, put together a group of family photos to show the impact of changes in both China and Australia on her cultural identity. With the photos in sanguine colors of red, blue and orange, Lee said she was trying to bring about the essences of her
cross-cultural experience in the artistic form.

"When I first came back to China, I found that all the women in China had something similar to my mother. They all shared something. It was beautiful," the artist said.

The Australia-China exhibition, named Process-Journey, brings together the works of Tony Scott, Guan Wei, Jayne Dyer, Li Gang, Laurens Tan, Rose Farrell and George Parkin. It will run for 10 days through May 22.

Supported by the Australian government and the Australian Consulate in Hong Kong, among others, the exhibition was also a celebration of the 35th anniversary of the diplomatic ties between China and Australia, which is one of the first Western countries to establish diplomatic ties with the
People's Republic of China.

Tony Scott, who co-organized the exhibition, said all the artists have had experiences of or connections with both Australia and China.

Australia Consul-General Les Luck said the exhibition was a sign of the deep and diversified relationship between the two countries.

"Artists can play an indispensable role as intermediaries, using very personal means to make clear wider cultural, political and aesthetic matters of interest to both Australians and Chinese," he said on inaugurating the exhibition in Wanchai, Hong Kong.

Artist Jayne Dyer said she has been living in Beijing recently and found the Chinese capital stimulating.

Laurens Tan said he had been living in both Sydney and Beijing, where the artist community is one of the biggest in the world, thereby, enabling conversations between different cultures.

Li Gang, a Chinese artist, put on a series of bronze waste shoes spanning about a decade, which he said were a sign of how the shoes had changed over the years in China.

Editor: Dong Jirong

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Free Chinese Lesson - American Classic Gets a Chinese Makeover

2009-01-12T08:10:00.001-08:00

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American Classic Gets a Chinese Makeover

When Ephraim Cabot brings his young bride Abbie to their remote New England farm, little does he see the turmoil that her arrival will bring his family. Ephraim's youngest son at first loathes the newcomer, but when hatred gives way to lust, the resulting conflict threatens to rock the peaceful
farm.

Eugene O'Neill's "Desire under the Elms"

Eugene O'Neill's "Desire under the Elms" may be familiar to many theatergoers but how would it be if performed in China's Chuanju Opera In 1989, the playwright Xu Fen tried to adapt it into a Chuanju Opera play entitled “Wild Desire” (Yuhai Kuangchao) and the Chengdu Chuanju Opera Company
premiered it that May.

As part of the ongoing Chuanju Opera Week, presented by the Chengdu Chuanju Opera Company, the play will run at the Memorial Hall of Peking University on Saturday.

Chuanju Opera "Wild Desire" is adapted from Eugene O'Neill's "Desire under the Elms"

Because of the sparseness of its style and its avoidance of melodrama, "Desire under the Elms" was acclaimed immediately as a powerful tragedy and has continued to rank among the great American plays of the 20th century.

"Desire is definitely not an easy work to carry off but we try deliver the original spirit and power of the drama as well as appeal to Chuanju fans," says the playwright Xu.

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Study Chinese - Chinese Acrobatic Ballet "Swan Lake" Applauded by Austrians

2009-01-11T06:39:00.001-08:00

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Chinese Acrobatic Ballet "Swan Lake" Applauded by Austrians

Wandering by the lake in a forest, a beautiful girl is suddenly taken away by a ferocious black hawk and is turned into a white swan. A prince, who dreamed of her horrible experience, embarked on a long, arduous journey to rescue her and finally gains her love.

"Swan Lake," a classic ballet which is familiar to Western audiences, has been interpreted by Chinese acrobatic artists into a new form, which received applause from the audience in Vienna.

The acrobatic ballet, performed by the Guangdong Acrobatic Troupe of China, gave two fantastic performances in Vienna Tuesday and Wednesday. The performances were held in the City Hall of Vienna with an average ticket price of 50 euros.

An official from City Hall told Xinhua that a total of 4,800 seats were prepared for the audience and all tickets for the shows quickly sold out, with an estimated 6,000 people coming to the show Wednesday.

"This show is great, and it won't let the audience down," he said.

Featuring Chinese cultural elements such as a Dragon boat, the Forbidden City and red lanterns, the stage design together with the colorful costumes and fantastic traditional Chinese acrobatic arts created incredibly brilliant scenes and successfully illustrated the classic love story.

Pianist Axel Zwingenberger told Xinhua the show was "one of the best performances" he had ever seen.

The performers displayed professional skills, and the combination of the eastern acrobatics and the Western ballet was "perfect," the pianist said, adding that "it (acrobatic ballet) isa quite smart idea, really lovely."

His comments represented those of the vast majority of the Vienna audience. Long-lasting applause and shouts of "bravo" could be heard after each section of the performance. Some audience members even went backstage and wanted to see those Chinese artists who "created such magical art."

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Learn Mandarin online - Hong Kong Chinese Orchestra on Four-city Tour of UK

2009-01-10T09:09:00.001-08:00

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Hong Kong Chinese Orchestra on Four-city Tour of UK

Hong Kong Chinese Orchestra (HKCO) is on its first major tour of the United Kingdom, said the Information Services Department of Hong Kong Special Administrative Region in a press release on last Saturday.

The HKCO tour started Friday with a concert at the Royal Festival Hall in London, followed by another three concerts in Manchester, Birmingham and Gateshead.

The tour was sponsored by the Hong Kong Economic and Trade Office in London, together with the Arts Development Fund of Home Affairs Bureau, the press release said.

The objective of the tour is to highlight the fascinating and vibrant cultural and musical heritage of Hong Kong to audiences in the United Kingdom.

The Orchestra's repertoire for the tour is a mixture of traditional and contemporary pieces chosen to represent different ethnic flavors from different areas of China, the press release said.

It includes modern classics such as Tracing our roots with the Old Pagoda Tree by Zhao Jiping, the composer of the film score of the award-winning movie Raise the Red Lantern, A Thousand Brushstrokes for pipa and orchestra by Hong Kong composer, Law Wing-fai, a pipa solo performed by the renowned
pipa virtuoso, Wong Chi-ching, and Terracotta Warriors Fantasia by Maestro Peng Xiuwen, according to the press release.

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Chinese Mandarin - Stories Behind Architectural Charm

2009-01-09T08:56:00.001-08:00

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Chinese Way>Custom

Stories Behind Architectural Charm

Drum and Bell Towers

How did they tell time

the Drum Tower

the Bell Tower

The Drum and Bell towers are situated at the northern end of the central axis of the Beijing Inner City to the north of Di' anmen Street.

The Bell Tower used to send out chimes at dawn and the Drum Tower told the time in the evening. They ceased this function more than 80 years ago.

In the Qing Dynasty, the hours were marked at night beginning at 7:00 p.m., a procedure that was popularly called "setting the watch." At this hour, the drums were sounded 13 times. After the watch had been "set" in this fashion, each subsequent two-hour interval was marked by a single drum beat.
Civil and military officials oriented their lives around these time signals. At the sounding of the third watch (1:00 a.m.) officials attending the morning court audience rose from there beds and at the fourth (3:00 a.m.) assembled outside the Meridian Gate (Wumen). At the sounding of the fifth
watch (5:00 a.m.) they entered the Imperial Palace and knelt on the Sea of Flagstones (Haimen) before the Hall of Supreme Harmony (Taihedian) to await instructions from the emperor.

The towers are still surrounded with crisscrossing Hutongs (lanes and allays) and courtyard residences, setting off the magnificence of the imposing tower gates and imperial palaces along the central line.

Walking westward from the Drum Tower, one comes to Houhai, literally ‘back sea’. It’s a place of old and new, boasting not only well-preserved Hutong but chic bars.

Editor: Dong Jirong

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Learn Chinese online - Chinese Performing Troupe to Tour Canada

2009-01-08T09:22:00.001-08:00

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Chinese Performing Troupe to Tour Canada

To enhance cultural exchanges between China and Canada, the troupe has also prepared an outstanding performance for the western mainstream audience, which will be presented at a Canadian top theater, the National Arts Center. An Ottawa symphony orchestra will collaborate with the troupe to perform
a Chinese classical Yao Dance while Chinese performers will play the Canadian folk song: Red River Valley.

Editor: Dong Jirong

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Speak Chinese - Oil Paintings of Contemporary Students

2009-01-07T09:01:00.001-08:00

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Exchange>Exhibition

Oil Paintings of Contemporary Students

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Learn Chinese online - The Eight Eccentric Painters of Yangzhou

2009-01-06T06:22:00.001-08:00

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Created in China>Art Treasures>Chinese Crafts and Fine Arts>Chinese Painting>list

The Eight Eccentric Painters of Yangzhou

Plum Blossomsby Jin Nong

After theFour Monk Painters, theQing Dynastysaw the rise of another revolutionary painting school in theEight Eccentric PaintersofYangzhou. The eight painters are Jin Nong, Huang Shen, Zheng Xie, Li Shan, Li Fangying, Wang Shishen, Gao Xiang and Luo Pin. Their paintings did not follow the old
brushstroke conventions, making them look strange compared with other paintings of the time. In addition, these painters were proud and uncontrolled and had bold personalities; thus they were named the Eight Eccentric Painters.

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Learning Mandarin - Label

2009-01-05T06:38:00.001-08:00

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Label

Download:

Label

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Chinese Character - Wang Shuhe

2009-01-04T08:46:00.001-08:00

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Created in China>Traditional Chinese Medicine >Doctors

Wang Shuhe

Wang Shuhe, also named "Wang Xi", was from Gaoping (now Gaoping County, Shanxi Province) of the Western Jin Dynasty (265-316). He lived around the third century, but his accurate dates of birth and death are unknown. He was born into a noble family. The superior living and learning environment
offered Wang Shuhe good education since his childhood. Later, because of frequent wars and turmoil, the family moved to Jingzhou of Hubei Province.

When Wang Shuhe lived in Jingzhou, Zhang Zhongjing was just at the peak of his medical career. Also because of the friendship with Zhang Zhongjing's disciple, Weixun, and gradually developed an interest in medicine, and was determined to study medicine. He sought ancient teachings,learned
extensively from all kinds of classics available, and probed into pathogeny in every way. He respected classical works but not followed them blindly. He learned from experienced famous doctors, took in all their merits, so he improved his skills very soon and gained great fame among his
contemporaries. Because of his high medical skills,he was selected as the military doctor of Cao Cao when the army of Cao Cao went to the south to fight with Liu Biao in Jingzhou in 208 AD. Thereafter, he successively served as a doctor for royal families, for the imperial court and so on. Later,
he was promoted to Minister in charge of imperial medical affairs.

Wang Shuhe not only had a good knowledge of prescriptions recorded in classical books, but also did in-depth research on sphygmology. In order to help doctors correctly apply pulse-feeling diagnosis techniques, there was an urgent need for a monographic work on sphygmology. The greatest
contribution in his life was the compilation of Mai Jing (The Pulse Classic), the earliest monographic work on sphygmology available in China.

Wang Shuhe's contributions to medical science were not limited to sphygmology; he also made outstanding contributions to the collation of ancient literature. One of the most influential works on Chinese medical science, Treatise on Febrile and Miscellaneous Diseases, was a basic textbook of
traditional Chinese medicine in all times, and many accomplished medical scientists had carried out research on it. However, owing to chaos caused by wars,the original book was lost soon after its publication. Wang Shuhe thought highly of Zhang Zhongjing's academic ideas and knew the great value
of the book. So he spared no pains to collect it everywhere, and recompiled it, dividing it into two parts, Treatise on Febrile Disease and Jinkui Yaolue (Golden Summary). Thus, Book on Miscellaneous Diseases of Enteric Fever was preserved and handed down. Of course, later generations have
different opinions on this book. Wang Shuhe's contribution to the collation of ancient books on traditional Chinese medicine is great, and the precious works he left for later generations are praiseworthy. Without Wang Shuhe's collation,we would not have been able to know the achievements of Zhang
Zhongjing in medical science.

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Chinese Mandarin - Kunqu Opera: Fifteen Strands of Coins

2009-01-03T05:03:00.001-08:00

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Kunqu Opera: Fifteen Strands of Coins

DanKunqu Opera: Fifteen Strands of Coins

ZhejiangKunqu Opera Troupe

Kunqu opera is one of China's oldest forms of traditional opera. In 2001, UNESCO added Kunqu opera to its list of "Masterpiece of the Oral and Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity." The Zhejiang Kunqu Opera Troupe, established in 1955, staged a groundbreaking production of Fifteen Strands of
Coins in 1956, ushering in a resurgence of the art of Kunqu opera. The Zhejiang Kunqu Opera Troupe currently has over ninety professional Kunqu performers, including thirty-two National Class One performers. Five members of the troupe have received the Plum Blossom Award, China's highest honor for
achievement in Chinese theater. The repertory of the Zhejiang Kunqu Opera Troupe currently includes several hundred classic Kunqu opera pieces. The troupe has toured numerous times in Asia, the United States, and Europe, gaining extensive popular and critical recognition.

Contact Information:

Presenter: Zhejiang Kunqu Opera Troupe
Contact: Wu Ning
Telephone: 0571-8597-6290
Fax: 0571-8523-1784
Email: Wuning_77@hotmail.com
Address: No. 118, Shangtang Road, Hangzhou, Zhejiang Province
Post Code: 310014

Introduction:

Butcher You Hulu borrows fifteen strands of coins, then misleads his stepdaughter Su Rongjuan into thinking that he obtained it by selling her as a servant. Unwilling to submit to a life of servitude, Su flees in the night to seek refuge with relatives. Gangster Lou A'shu breaks into You's home,
kills him, and makes off with the money. Itinerant merchant Xiong Youlan, coincidentally carrying fifteen strands of coins along with his goods, encounters Su Rongjuan on the road and they become traveling companions. Lou A'shu seizes the opportunity to frame Xiong and Su for You's murder and the
theft of his fifteen strands of coins, and they are thrown in jail. Without bothering to investigate, the lazy and arrogant county magistrate wrongly convicts Xiong and Su of the crime and sentences them to death. Just as the sentence is about to be carried out, Supervisor of Executions Kuang
Zhong discovers that the evidence against Xiong and Su is false. Staking his position on Xiong and Su's innocence, Kuang orders the execution to be halted while he reconsiders the case. Disguised as a civilian, he returns to the scene of the crime to discover the truth, and in the end brings the
real criminal to justice.

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Forum: ZDT Flashcards Forum 3rd January 2008, 09:53 PM

Replies: 27

Sticky: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

Views: 2,264

Posted By trevorp

Re: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

I just installed 0.7.0

However i get the following error message when trying to create new categories

Bad SQL grammer [SELECT category_name From category order by CATEGORY_ORDER] in task...

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Chinese Pinyin - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-24T04:59:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 3rd March 2008, 07:47 AM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

Only immediate suggestion I'd have is editing the Makefile and removing all of the extraneous g++
flags. ie. the software shouldn't be outputting "--static" and remove "mtune" and the other...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 26th February 2008, 12:54 PM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

Should work on anything that supports the GNU C++ compiler. Issue with mobile devices is probably
more with the interface: inputing content and displaying the output.

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 25th February 2008, 02:24 PM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

@character -- version 5.023 is up and should solve your issues. Two new command lines:

--trad-vocab == traditional/pinyin vocabulary export option
--tonalize --> converts numeric pinyin to UTF8 tone...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 25th February 2008, 01:59 PM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

The strange thing is that the same output works for me. This suggests that it isn't an issue with
the "--code" flag itself, although there might be library issues.

I know that I've been using Ubuntu...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 23rd February 2008, 03:44 PM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

Also, document redirection requires write permissions on the directory. Can you confirm that you
have those write permissions and/or try the command using "sudo" (root will definitely have
write...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 23rd February 2008, 03:30 PM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

Strange. I've never run into this problem or heard of anyone else having it.... Can you let me
know what OS you're running the program, along with (ideally) your version of g++.

One suggestion would...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 22nd February 2008, 08:40 AM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

@character,

The command copied above works for me. The only difference is that "input file" needs to be
renamed to the name of your input file. Also, it takes a few minutes to process because the...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 17th February 2008, 06:34 PM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

Still haven't fixed the issue with 他, but the others are fixed in the software now. Details:

http://www. /showthread.php?p=141265#post141265

We don't have many vocal users who are...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 15th February 2008, 05:02 PM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

I'll take a look with the text you forwarded later this weekend. Thx.

Suggestions for better translations than legendary would be welcome.

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 15th February 2008, 09:12 AM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

> Is there a way to get traditional and pinyin output instead of simplified and traditional?
> How do the "-cn -y -t" options work? Adding them all didn't seem to change anything
> in the...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 15th February 2008, 02:01 AM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

You can specify output encoding and script as well:

-oe utf8 -os simplified

or whatever. For help with the command line instructions, just type:

./adso --help

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 15th February 2008, 01:58 AM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

Traditional support is worse (we don't have many contributors from Taiwan), but I'd guess the
problem if you're annotating really short passages is that the system doesn't have enough data to
guess...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 14th February 2008, 05:46 PM

Replies: 21

Adso instruction(s)

Views: 841

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Adso instruction(s)

To install the internal version:

(1) go to the source directory

(2) type "./prepare_internal"

(3) type "make"

If you're doing this and getting an error message please send me details of what...

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2008-12-23T05:00:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 2nd February 2005, 10:03 PM

Replies: 43

Why Do You Learn Chinese?(ple help me with the survey)

Views: 6,910

Posted By carlo

1. Because it's the most commonly spoken language...

1. Because it's the most commonly spoken language on Earth
2. Almost 30, have lived in several countries since age 1, currently working in and around China.
Good luck with the survey!

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2008-12-22T05:01:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 27th July 2006, 05:48 PM

Replies: 44

Poll: Why learning spoken Chinese as a foreigner is easy and hard

Views: 7,920

Posted By andrewfz

I have lived in Asia for 20 years now. I stayed...

I have lived in Asia for 20 years now. I stayed in China 4 yrs and studied the language after work
in the evenings. I can say that Chinese (manadarin) is very hard to take the first step...getting
an...

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2008-12-21T05:05:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 2nd June 2005, 07:37 AM

Replies: 38

dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

Views: 8,318

Posted By venture160

personally I don't take learning Chinese as a...

personally I don't take learning Chinese as a hobby, but as a serious study to which i devote
hours to, and I will be studying for twelve months straight in China coming this June on top of
a...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 2nd June 2005, 03:39 AM

Replies: 38

dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

Views: 8,318

Posted By venture160

I do agree that down the road, maybe 5-10 years...

I do agree that down the road, maybe 5-10 years we could see a very lage increase of Chinese
learners in the western countries, especially the United States. Public schools are just beginning
to...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 28th May 2005, 07:58 AM

Replies: 38

dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

Views: 8,318

Posted By venture160

yea, he is a news anchor though, so he speaks...

yea, he is a news anchor though, so he speaks alot faster, really really impressive. I will try
and dig up a link. Yea there are alot of no names running around that have Chinese that is quite...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 27th May 2005, 12:06 PM

Replies: 38

dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

Views: 8,318

Posted By venture160

dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

Just wondering if you have ever come across anyone who has a disgustingly awesome mandarin
proficiency. I know there is Dashan etc, but what about all those foreigners who come to study
their asses...

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2008-12-20T05:03:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 04:24 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By gao_bo_han

Quest, Exactly. They are redundant and therefore...

Quest,

Exactly. They are redundant and therefore not pronounced.

I'm sorry but I still don't agree that "wu" in mandarin sounds like "woo" in English. The "w" part
of "wu" is very different from...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 29th March 2004, 06:23 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By gao_bo_han

I disagree. I have always thought the emphasis is...

I disagree. I have always thought the emphasis is on the "oo" part of the word as opposed to the
"w", and sounds in common speech much more like "ooo" than "woo".

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2008-12-19T05:01:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 1st July 2004, 09:51 AM

Replies: 55

Married to a Chinese in the U.S.?

Views: 7,036

Posted By mncuso

I think the reason for the relatively few number...

I think the reason for the relatively few number of Chinese male / white female marriages is
really quite simple: Chinese mother-in-laws.

I'm only half joking...

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Chinese Character - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-18T04:56:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 14th February 2006, 06:11 PM

Replies: 61

most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

Views: 17,258

Posted By onebir

I wanted to ask my friends for some tap water -...

I wanted to ask my friends for some tap water - zilaishui. But it came out zixingshui, which means
bicycle water (if it means anything at all).

More surreal than embarrassing...

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2008-12-17T04:59:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 10:53 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By wushijiao

Re: Why do caucasians love English?

I think the spirit of the original post was something along the lines of “I have come to this
school to learn Chinese. You have come here to learn Chinese. Why don’t you want to speak
Chinese?” ...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 10:22 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By wushijiao

Re: Why do caucasians love English?

I think the biggest issue here is the issue of privacy. When we are talking to someone else, not
only do we want to speak the language that we will both be able to use to our highest level of...

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2008-12-16T05:14:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 22nd April 2004, 11:56 AM

Replies: 63

Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By Yuchi

Perhaps I'm slow as to why you yelled at the guy?...

Perhaps I'm slow as to why you yelled at the guy?

Even though the guy knows you (from past visits?), the rarity of someone speaking chinese as
stated in this thread, is about the same as the rarity...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 18th April 2004, 01:34 AM

Replies: 63

Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By Yuchi

Where is this? Specific city please. No offense...

Where is this? Specific city please.
No offense but wasn't the yelling a bit crude? Or atleast the way you summarized it..

If you look the least bit "un-asian", we will assume you know english, most...

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2008-12-15T04:58:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 19th August 2005, 04:32 PM

Replies: 66

Audio file: please criticise my pronunciation

Views: 6,849

Posted By xiaocai

I have to say I don't agree with that. At least I...

I have to say I don't agree with that. At least I use there words with other chinese especially
those I'm not very familiar with.

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2008-12-14T05:05:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th February 2007, 06:16 PM

Replies: 75

New Antiwave Podcast 人民大会谈4 - “东南西北”宋以朗 (下)

Views: 12,291

Posted By chenpv

Re: New Antiwave Podcast 人民大会谈4 - “东南西北”宋以朗 (上)

宋以朗，曾任美国FBI联邦调查局法庭传译，美国最大的数据公司审计顾问。2
003年4月创办东南西北网站，每天从中文媒体中选择新闻进行翻译。这是一个
完全由他一个人制作完成的站点，也有人把东南西北看作一个博客，一个神�
��的博客。因为从开站后不久，东南西北就成为西方媒体关注中国的重要渠��
�，是几乎所有驻华外国记者必去的站点之一。它的作用甚至有时超过了官方
的新华社和中新社。反波人民大会谈采访了现在香港的宋以朗，...

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Pnyin - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-13T00:57:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 10th February 2006, 09:56 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By Ncao

I thought Singapore doesn't allow dialects to be...

I thought Singapore doesn't allow dialects to be use in the media?

Forum: Speaking and Listening 8th February 2006, 07:42 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By Ncao

Actually Cantonese also has many foul words. All...

Actually Cantonese also has many foul words. All Chinese dialect/languages has the share of foul
language.

Forum: Speaking and Listening 23rd January 2006, 01:15 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By Ncao

Actually,there are many HK entertainers who are...

Actually,there are many HK entertainers who are of Shanghaiese descent.

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Chinese Class - Interpreting a paragraph -

2008-12-11T08:51:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Interpreting a paragraph
Home New Posts

Login: Pass: Log in or register for standard view and full access.

DrWatson -

This is a passage taken from a text I am studying from. I had a few questions about it and was
hoping I might get some feedback.

1) 一聽可著了急 -- does this mean anxiously listening?
2) What does 他就到《她》那裡去 mean? I really cannot figure out the meaning.
3) 說甚麼也不肯去 -- Does this mean "say something also about not agreeing to go"?
4) In the final clause, what does 連 do/mean in this sentence?

Quote:

爺爺一聽可著了急,上星期六就約好了,星期一把聰聰送進幼兒園,他就到《她�
��那裡去.誰知道今天聰聰特別不聽話,說甚麼也不肯去.他不禁嘆息起來;想當�
��,自己能指揮一個團,現在卻連一個五歲孫子都指揮不了.

Edit: thanks for catching the typo, studentyoung

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muyongshi -

2) It is a part of what is before it... 一。。。就。。。。 so as soon as he dropped of
the kid at the kindergarten he then went to wherever she was at.
3) No matter what was said he wasn't willing to go 肯=愿意说什么也不 no matter what was
said, implying persuasion
4) 连 means even

gougou -

Quote:

2) It is a part of what is before it... 一。。。就。。。。 so as soon as he dropped of
the kid at the kindergarten he then went to wherever she was at.

The 一 you're referring to here is part of 星期一。

3) 什么也不 and 什么都不 are fixed phrases, they mean "nothing at all", or "not anything",
as in 我什么都没看懂 - I didn't understand anything.

muyongshi -

Ha...I read to 一‘s there...in that cause the 就 just links the two clauses and means after
doing x then I did x. so 就 is just then, shows a progression.

studentyoung -

Quote:

1) 一聽課著了急 -- does this mean anxiously listening?

Here is a typo. It is not “課”, but “可”. The original text should be:
爺爺一聽可著急了(On hearing this, Grandfather became so worried).

Quote:

3) 說甚麼也不肯去 -- Does this mean "say something also about not agreeing to go"?

“說什麼也不…… “ means “someone are so reluctant to do something no matter how hard
you try to persuade him/her”.

Quote:

4) In the final clause, what does 連 do/mean in this sentence?

Quote:

他不禁嘆息起來;想當年,自己能指揮一個團,現在卻連一個五歲孫子都指揮不�
��.

连here means “even”. He couldn’t help sighing in his heart, “I could control a whole
regiment, but now I can’t even control my five year old grandson.”

Cheers!

Carolyn -

1.一聽課著了急.
Is tins setence "一聽可著了急"?
It means when grandpa heard the news he feel anxious at onece.as same as 一····就····
2.他就到《她》那裡去。"《xx》",xx is a book's name.But 她 is a person,so you can't
use "《》"(書名號)
" It is a part of what is before it... 一。。。就。。。。 so as soon as he dropped of the
kid at the kindergarten he then went to wherever she was at."right answer.

3) 說甚麼也不肯去:in this setence,甚麼也不means not at all.
說甚麼也不肯去:whatever grandpa say 聰聰 don't agree to go to 幼兒園 at all.

4) In the final clause, what does 連 do/mean in this sentence?
連：indicate emphasis
想當年,自己能指揮一個團,現在卻連一個五歲孫子都指揮不了.
in this setence,grandpa think：in the past he can command troop,but now he can't command his
five-year old grandson.
emphasize 一個五歲孫子都指揮不了.

my english is not very well,hope you can understand what i say.

Anfya -

想當年,自己能指揮一個團,現在卻連一個五歲孫子都指揮不了.

Here he is saying that he could conduct a musical group in the past, but now he could not even
command a five-year-old kid.

for an another example,
以前她可以吃下五個漢堡，現在卻連一碗飯都吃不完。
In the past she could eat up five hamburgers, (but) now she could not even finish one bowl of rice.

"連" is often used to compare a big difference between the past and the present situation.

DrWatson -

Carolyn, thank you for the remarks. What should I use for quoting 她? Should I use "她"?

DrWatson -

So I have some more questions based on the responses above. I can't seem to wrap my head around
some of the grammar.

1) Is it true that 一 corresponding with the 就 is the one attached 星期一 and not 一聽? I
thought that 星期一 was Monday? If it is true, then what does 一聽 mean?

2) I am afraid I still don't get this part: 他就到"她"那裡去. "then went to wherever she
was at." 他 in this case is not the Grandfather, but the boy? Is that why the 把 structure was
used? Does it focus the attention to the boy?

Thanks for your help so far! It is really helping me understand the text better.

muyongshi -

Okay the one 一 is a part of 星期一 so it is not part of an 一。。。就。。。structure.
However the 一聽 is part of that type of structure (就可以省略) so that one means "as soon
as he heard it....."

For the 把字句 the 他 is the grandfather, notice the subject isn't changing.
[He/Grandpa]把the kid 送到幼儿园 and then he [still grandfather] went wherever he went to.
The 把 doesn't add emphisis to the child, it's just the best way to say the sentence. It keeps
the grandpa as the subject all the way through and all the actions, 送 and 去 belong to him.

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Chinese Tutor - Events related to studying Chinese + other activities -

2008-12-10T09:06:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Events related to studying Chinese + other activities
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heifeng -

So basically I just wanted to start a thread about 'Current Beijing Events' that we can add to
just to keep others informed about some of the more interesting events that may be going on, but
we may not be aware of...but overall, they should be fun to go to and potentially help us with our
studying of Chinese in some way. Even purely fun (preferably free) activity listings would be nice

So one (that I meant to add earlier) is that the 外文句 often holds free seminars (well, once a
month)~ here is the most recent from last week end one here. But in the future, you can just check
out their website here for events, the lecture is usually listed as 大家讲堂

Also, there are always a ton of (admission free) expos going on, so if you hear of any interesting
ones, maybe you can list them here. They may be fun to visit and learn something new.

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heifeng -

Ok, so my post is a bit late (I even saw it on the news last night but apparently today was the
last day), but this was going on this week, which looked interesting. I guess if other events are
going on they could potentially be listed here~in advance..

暨民族语文国际学术研讨会在京召开

imron -

Listed in advance does usually help

heifeng -

yes, I agree. Unfortunately I saw that one on the news at night and by the time I looked it up the
next day it was over..grr...

anyway, saw this one in the paper yesterday,in addition to it being posted online~ plenty of
advanced notice:

(I really liked 王国振老师's lecture before)

imron -

Got up this morning to check when these were on, and they were already started Maybe next time.
Anyone else interested in going to the one tomorrow? I just gave them a call then and they still
have places, so I might go and have a look.

zhameng -

Thanks Heifeng for starting this thread off about event related to studying Chinese... I was
really interested to see it and am now glad to have something to contribute.
Chinese Culture Club in Beijing are advertising a presentation on Chinese Deities for this
Wednesday (Dec 5). They say it will be in Chinese with English interpretation.
http://www.chinesecultureclub.org/ev...p?eventid=1589
I guess the language used for talking about Chinese Deities is going to be pretty technical, but
it should be interesting.

imron -

Quote:

anyway, saw this one in the paper yesterday,in addition to it being posted online

Well, I ended up going to this, it was quite an interesting lecture, however the lecturer lost
some credibility when he mentioned that unlike English, Chinese didn't have grammar

imron -

Quote:

I was really interested to see it and am now glad to have something to contribute.

Haha, well, I think Heifeng's emphasis was not just on events, but also to *free* events

P.S. First posts by new users containing links to commercial websites/activities are usually
deleted. I'm letting this one through because some people might be interested.

heifeng -

Here is an inexpensive event (last day is the 25th though!!):

“好运北京”轮椅篮球邀请赛今日开战门票最低10元

Also this month at the 外文局 there is a free lecture on Japanese-Chinese translation

gougou -

There's a lecture on cultural differences between Chinese and Japanese tonight. I was planning to
go, but will probably have to pass as I just got assigned a new project.

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Learn Chinese online - anyone to BNU at feb 2008? -

2008-12-09T09:05:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
anyone to BNU at feb 2008?
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dys31 -

hi..Anyone's heading for BNU next feb? I'll be there for a year program next feb. I don't really
know about the campus, can anyone share.

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extrapages -

i know ill still be here in february.
feel free to contact me when you get here. and until then, you can ask any specific questions you
have on the forum and youll probably get some quick and thorough answers.
i was really lucky to have met "jamoldo" when i FIRST got here. he helped me buy my cell phone and
get settled in without feeling bewildered and hopelessly confused. i probably would have cried
myself to sleep for a week if he and his friend werent so freaking nice to me.
itd be pretty awesome to be able to help someone new and keep the love flowing, na'mean?

sannomiya -

well, i just sent out my application form so i might be going there in feb. it was either bnu,
blcu, or tsinghua for me. chose bnu since a lot of people agree the quality of teaching is better
than the others. hopefully, i'll see you all there.

adrianlondon -

http://www.bnulxsh.com/flash/index.htm#

I think someone at BNU has too much time on their hands.

Oh, if you want the English language, click on the cheese ...

sannomiya -

it is official. just got my acceptance package in the mail. i am attending bnu.

gaikokujin -

Hi!

Does this University do chinese semesters for foreigners who would like to study mandarin?

Thanks a lot!

adrianlondon -

Do you mean ... do they teach Mandarin to foreigners? If so then yes, that's what we're all
talking about here.

Jamoldo -

Following extrapages' post, if anyone has any questions let me know, on this board or via PM and I
can try and help you, though I will be leaving BNU in mid January...

gaikokujin -

HI Jamoldo,

Thanks.

- what the average age /nationalities trends in the classes?
- how many hours per week? how many class levels are there?
- if you start the courses with more or less level 3 HSK, what can you expect after 6months
studying "normally"? after a year?
- can I take 6 months then swith to something more business oriented?

Cheers,
Gaikokujin

Jamoldo -

1. Average age, I'd estimate low 20s, but all ranges. From 17 years old up to 40, and maybe above.
That being said, most are undergraduate students, either from other countries, or foreign students
studying to get their B.A. from Beishida. With regards to nationalities, the majority of foreign
students are Korean, followed by Japanese. As you go higher in level the more Korean and Japanese
students there are (especially Korean). In the lower levels you also have a lot of Indonesians
(that's been my observation). Then there's a scattering of Europeans, Americans, Malaysians,
Africans etc.

2. There are 15 to 17 class hours a week (depending on if you go to the extra/optional tutoring
class that's offered). Class levels range from first year to fourth year. 100 (ni hao), 101, 102,
201, 202, 301, 302, 401, 402.

3. One should progress "3" levels on the HSK per year ON AVERAGE. Depends on how much Chinese you
speak and how hard you study for the HSK. After all the HSK is a test that one has to prepare for.
I have met people who had trouble speaking Chinese but did very well on the HSK, and vice versa.
Different people progress at different levels, so it's hard to say.

4. You can study for 6 months, and then try to sit in and audit a business class. Most professors,
from what I hear would allow it, though I think I'd get lost really quickly, unless I was at a
decent level of Chinese. What you can do is during Newspaper reading class, choose to translate
articles reporting business and economics news, which is what I choose to do. I am sure you can
also find someone to tutor you for cheap, and help you with business and economics stuff.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

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Learn Mandarin online - Pork recipe from 2200 years ago, How to cook pork in the Rites of Zhou - Page 2 -

2008-12-08T09:02:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Food
Pork recipe from 2200 years ago, How to cook pork in the Rites of Zhou
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trufflepig -

how many guinea pigs can one fit in a Ding?

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fireball9261 -

Hi trufflepig,

If you threw out your Ding, wouldn't you make a din on your Ding?

Also, you can fit a lot of guinea pigs in a Ding. I bet they taste good.

Anyway, the first part of the recipe is also the way to make the begger's chicken in more modern
Chinese cooking. You just stop at taking the feathers off and seasoning it a little with salt and
pepper. I have never tried it -- I don't want to deal with a chicken with feathers!

Btw, the traditional way of the begger's chichen recipe started with: First, you steal a chicken
from you neighbor's yard.

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Learn Chinese online - BOTM November 2007，《雷雨》 - Page 5 -

2008-12-07T09:02:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues > Book of the Month
BOTM November 2007，《雷雨》
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muyongshi -

By all means keep asking.

I didn't read much into that scene, I just thought it was him thinking she was truly sick and
needed medicine and of course her sickness was one that he couldn't understand.

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imron -

I'm not sure what the deeper meaning of the scene is, but I think it shows very much the power
that 周朴园 holds over his household, and that the 周 household is still a very traditional
(i.e. feudal) one. This is quite an important thing to note, especially when placed in the context
of what was happening in society at the time, with a strong movement to break away from
traditional/feudal society.

Quote:

I myself am familiar with 雷雨，not 球状闪电

Not to worry, you still have another month to finish reading it

Jenny311 -

I totally agree with Imron, you said it very well. It's difficult for me to express this meaning
in English, but you just helped me out! Thanks!

On the other hand, it also shows that the wife is not a traditional Chinese wife who is surposed
to listen to the husband totally. She was influenced by the outside world, she wanted to revolt
the feudal power, but did not succeed eventually. Again, this also shows "a strong movement to
break away from traditional/feudal society" at the time.

Imron, 你让我刮目相看了！

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Chinese Studies - Taiwanese: "man among men" - Page 2 -

2008-12-06T09:04:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Taiwanese: "man among men"
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LiYuanXi -

I forgot to mention that if you use the 'bai' version to read the poem in taiwanese, it wouldn't
rhyme!

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fireball9261 -

Ah! No wonder I thought I had heard it this way. I thought I was crazy. LiYuanXi, thank you for
your information. I wasn't in the proper Taiwanese environment for many years, so I have forgotten
some of those details. However, I didn't know the 文话 and 白话 differences. I just heard
those poems being read in Taiwanese - probably in 文话.

zozzen -

人中之龍 ?
dragon among men.

achiese -

We used to say "正港的查甫人”or "正港的男子漢”.

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Speak Chinese - Translation for my graphic design coursework -

2008-12-05T08:59:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Translation for my graphic design coursework
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indecision -

hello everyone!
for my graphic design A2 level coursework we have to write an essay on a topic of our choice. my
chosen title is:

"The Impact of the West on Chinese Design"

we have to present the essay creatively and make it all pretty, so my teacher suggested that it
would be good to have the title written in Chinese as well, since the essay is about Chinese
design. can anyone translate this title for me?

i've been trying to teach myself cantonese, but i think it would probably be better to have it in
standard written chinese. it doesn't have to be that exact phrasing - if it's easier it could be
translated from "how the west changed Chinese Design" or something, so long as the basic meaning
is the same. but any help you could give would be much appreciated!

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skylee -

Consider 西方對中國設計的影響
Or 西方對中國設計的衝擊

indecision -

thank you very much!

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Pnyin - George Kennedy - romanization of Chinese topolects -

2008-12-04T08:54:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
George Kennedy - romanization of Chinese topolects
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m.ellison -

This is a question about George Kennedy the Yale sinologist -- as I remember he invented his own
system for romanizing Chinese. This was supposed to work for multiple topolects. However, I have
forgotten any of the details and the books are out of print. Does anyone have any information
about this?

The texts should be one of the following, but I cannot remember which:
George A Kennedy. Interpretation of the Ch'un-Ch'iu. JAOS v62 #1 (1942) 40-48
George A Kennedy. ZH Guide: An Introduction to Sinology. Far Eastern 1953
George A Kennedy (ed Li). Selected Works of George A Kennedy. Far Eastern 1964

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Lu -

JOAS is a periodical (Journal of Asian Studies), and should be available for copying at any
library with a decent Chinese section. Go to your local (university) library, if they don't have
this issue of this periodical, they can request them for loan from another library. The same goes
for books, actually.

Good luck!

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HSK - How to convey "You Rock" -

2008-12-03T09:04:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
How to convey "You Rock"
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xianu -

So, here is a silly question, but I am wondering how you have conveyed "you ROCK" in Chinese? I
have a bunch of nice little "standard bookish" things to say (tai hao le, feichang, bang, ..jile,
etc), but I can't think of a term that might convey all that "you ROCK" (the student's upper case)
in Chinese. Just wondering what kinds of things people might be saying for this.

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gato -

你真棒！

xiaojiang216 -

你盖了帽儿！

bhchao -

You can say 你太屌了!

My elementary classmates and I said it all the time at school in Taiwan.

imron -

你真牛！

gato -

Note that "牛" and "屌" might be considered profanity by some. They are also often used to used
to refer to someone with guanxi rather than ability.

skylee -

Except "你真棒！" , I suspect not all the expressions provided are understood by everyone
(well I haven't heard of "你盖了帽儿" ). Am I right?

Han-tiger -

There are different expressions to convey “you rock” in different places of China, so I
couldn’t agree more with skylee that not all the expressions provided are understood by
everyone. But the following ones I think can be commonly understandable to our Chinese.

A. 你真棒！OR 你太棒了！
B. 你真厉害！OR 你太厉害了！
C. 你真牛！OR 你太牛了！

Here “真” and “太” are an adverb, “真” means really, truly, or indeed. While
“太” means very.

Where in Beijing, people like to use “牛逼” or “强” in their daily oral communications
instead of “棒”, “厉害”, and “牛”.

These expressions can be used in a very informal occasion where to praise some one who is giving
his or her friends a surprise as achieving something unusual or significant. But, “牛逼” is
a hot phrase used by Beijing guys. It is impolite or kinds of rude for a guy to say “牛逼”
to a girl.

xiaojiang216 -

Quote:

I suspect not all the expressions provided are understood by everyone (well I haven't heard of
"你盖了帽儿"). Am I right?

Yeah, most of these are 方言

盖了帽儿了 is 北京话
吊 is from 台湾

Would 棒 and 牛 be understood by most Mandarin speakers? Do they have 方言 origin?

muyongshi -

棒 would definitely be understood but I don't know about 牛

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Chinese Character - Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in

2008-11-23T08:56:00.001-08:00

> Wikis > Guide to Chinese
Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in Chinese-Forums
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#1

Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in Chinese-Forums

When adding substantial amount of new material, it is recommended that you save it in a text file
on your computer first, in case the website or your browser malfunctions.

Texts within “[ ]”, such as [h2], [b], and [i], are vBulletin formatting codes. See FAQ for
more details on the formatting codes available.
See NuWiki Syntax Guide for more Wiki structural formatting codes.

Use [h2], [h3], ..., [h7] heading format code for section headings, with [h2] being the biggest
heading, [h7] being the smallest. Once you have four or more headings in an article, a table of
content will automatically be displayed.

Section Title:

Code:

[h2]Title[/h2]

Subsections Title:

Code:

[h3]Sub-Section Title[/h3]

Main Content will use plain text and will not be separated from sub-section title unless it is a
list.

If creating a list or points use bullets

Code:

[list][*]Point one
[*]point two[/list]

If the list contains a main content and sub-content the main content will be bolded and the
sub-content will be placed in the next line italicized

Code:

[list][*]Point one
[i]sub-content[/i]
[*]point two[/list]

Explanation on a point should be placed in a new line with no formatting:

Code:

[list][*]Point one
[i]sub-content[/i]
Explanation or other information
[*]point two[/list]

Review your work, and take care that the spacing between sections are consistent.

If you would like to link to a discussion in the forums as a reference please add a footnote

Code:

[footnote]place text with link here[/footnote]

====================================================================================================

Contributors: gato, muyongshi

Created by muyongshi, 5th October 2007 at 02:07 PM
Last edited by gato, 10th October 2007 at 12:25 PM
16 Comments , 1263 Views

Discussion

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Learn Chinese - Can a non-native be an English teacher? - Page 2 -

2008-11-22T09:15:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Can a non-native be an English teacher?
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nakuru -

Well i really wouldn't like to get a job because I've green eyes and dark blond hair. I rather
have clear pronunciation which was also stated by natives speakers. Now I'm in UK and work with
English people so I hope that it would help to improve my English even more. Anyway thanks for
feedback and i will do my best to get a job. For sure I will not do harm to anyone with my English

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billiardsmike -

A Dutch speaker. Sorry if that seemed to be a generalization. It's meant to be a reference to two
specific individuals.

roddy -

If there are any laws or even regulations about non-native speakers teaching English, I've yet to
hear of them. You might be a less popular choice, and you might have to take a slightly worse job
then a similarly qualified native speaker of English, but you'll be able to find work.

pingpangqiu -

I agree I think it is obviously easier for a native speaker to find English teaching jobs, but if
you " look the part " and have a clear accent you should be fine. Try this site (if you dont' know
it already): http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/

You could also try the kindergardens. I'm in Shanghai and have heard of some people from Israel,
Philippines etc getting part-time + full-time jobs in kindergardens at the same pay rates as
native speakers. Often the language schools such as English First, Web International, Wall Street
want native speakers but the kindergardens seem to be less strict. I would also advise you to wait
until you get here to find a job as you can often negotiate a much better salary. By all means do
your research about different schools, but wait until you are here to visit the schools, meet the
people in charge etc until you sign a contract/agree to work in a school.

I know of a number of teachers in SH who get paid half of what other schools are paying here as
they accepted a job before coming just because they were worried about coming here without a job.
Do your research, but take a bit of a risk come here without a job and then go walk around town
with your resume and give it to every English School, kindergarden, middle school etc that you can
find! it should not be a problem.

Senzhi -

Pingpangqiu,

I agree ... however, there's a small problem here:

Tourist and business visa's can no longer be exchanged into residence permits for foreign teachers
from within the country ... at least not officially.
A colleague of mine had to go back to the UK, as he was here on a tourist visa but had to apply
for a Z-visa from the Chinese embassy in the UK. There was no way they were willing to change the
tourist visa into a residence permit here in Guangdong.

The rules change quickly, especially with the obvious upcoming events.

pingpangqiu -

Yes your right Senzhi,

The Chinese government seem to be clamping down on teachers who are working without the correct
visa and making random changes to the laws regarding visas for English teachers etc. I think there
must be loads of teachers working on business or student visas, but of course it doesn't make it
right.

In Shanghai there are lots of Agencies like www.emoo.net who can renew visas for you for a fee. I
guess they have some good guanxi in the consulates. Did your colleague try using one of these
types of agencies in Guangdong? Could he not just go to Hong Kong and change his visa?

Senzhi -

We've tried every rule that's not in the book ... to no avail. It was simply: back to the UK ...
and at his own expenses.

nakuru -

So what's the solution for such situation? I'm not worried and I will go there to look work on my
own but coming back just to change visa is too expensive. So I can either agree to work on half of
the salary when applying for the work from Europe or to go there get better conditions but be
forced to go back.

pingpangqiu -

You can arrive on a tourist visa and then try to change your visa with an agency such as this one
that exists in Shanghai.
http://www.emoo.net/modules/icontent/index.php?page=5

Or just work on a business visa which I think a number of part-time teachers do (which is not
strictly legal - but much of what Chinese businesses do is not legal!)

You could come here on a student visa and study Chinese at a University for a semester and then
change your visa when you get here.

nakuru -

tkanks for all your ideas. I have done small research on visas issue and i'm a bit confused as
some of you say that L visa can not be converted into X visa within borders of China. To obtain F
visa I need latter of invitation form University and to get such i need to enroll on their classes
and to do this i need to pay all the fees and tuitions for a semester- that's quite expensive
solution. And if i'm not going or could not attend their classes all this would go for nothing. Is
it easier to change F visa into working visa than from tourist one? What is the minimum one have
to do to enroll on Uni to get F visa?

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Speak Chinese - Is it that hard for me to find a foreign boyfriend?! -

2008-11-21T09:02:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Society
Is it that hard for me to find a foreign boyfriend?!
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reisen -

I am just a normal chinese girl, active and full of sunshine. But sometimes also feel tired and
bored in this huge city. It's just a feeling that my heart lacks and want somebody to accompany
with.
I live in the University area in this city and there're so many foreigners around, i always see
some cute guys walk along the street, but to shy to accost them.
I don't mean that i just want foreigner ones. But maybe because i am just coming back from Germany
and planing to study in US next year. I feel just i am like unacquainted with this city even i was
boren here and grown up here. I had two chinese boyfriends before i went to germany, and had one
friend in germany. I just feel like i really like people from west more.

I don't know what the others think or what the foreigners think about the relationship about
chinese girls and foreign boys. Probably you will think, most chinese girls are just for marrige
or for money or for "mian zi", like a foreign boyfriend makes me cooler than others"

But I am really not like that, i only want somebody to hang out with, talk with,or even soulmate.
I am still too young to think of marrige, and i can study hard to go aboard without depending on
marrige to get a citizenship. And also don't need a someone to help me with my english. don't
think mine is perfect, but enough for communicating.
Actually i also don't know what kind of person i want, but i am just so sure in my heart that i
need a boyfriend and i would like to have one from other lands. Because i think i behave like a
wester girl, and won't stay in this city that long, if we are all just short passing traveller,
and we have the same interests and tastes. This one year must be nice and enjoyable.

I am also totally confused with the foreigners in china. Because some foreign friends told me,
they just want sex with a woman in china but not love. I don't know if it's true. I mean I have no
problem with sleeping, but only for the ones love me and I love. The bars here there are always
many chinese girls.They also want to touch with foreigners, i don't know their thoughts, but i
don't think i'm the same as them and don't want to be thought like them.
It's always a little bit lonly or sometimes maybe when you far away from home.But for foreigners,
Do majority of you only for sex or playing with a chinese girls, or you are also considering a
earnest relationship?
And what do you think of chinese girls?

Is it such hard for me to find such a boyfriend?
Am I too childish and ideal?

PS; I am from Nanjing, if anyone live in this city who is interested in me, please contact me.
Like sending messages in this forum. Or from other citys，we can also talk through skype or msn.
I'd like to know more people and touch different cultures.

Thx, anywhy.

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muyongshi -

Quote:

but to shy to accost them.

I'm sure they all appreciate not be accosted.

Quote:

I am also totally confused with the foreigners in china. Because some foreign friends told me,
they just want sex with a woman in china but not love.

Yeah there are foreigners like this but a very small majority

Quote:

but i am just so sure in my heart that i need a boyfriend

You DON'T need a boyfriend...you need to just relax and enjoy life and learn to be content being
single. There are so many thing that you can't do in a relationship that you can do when single.
Relax and enjoy life! Then in the right time the right guy will come along and you won't have to
try so hard.

yonglin -

If you are interested in meeting foreigners, make friends with them. Don't expect yourself to find
a new boyfriend. If you get to know someone, it might so happen that you fall in love with him,
but the whole "finding a foreign boyfriend"-run seems a bit hasty. Also, you might come off as a
bit desperate, and this would make you seem more unattractive.

Quote:

Because i think i behave like a wester girl, and won't stay in this city that long, if we are all
just short passing traveller, and we have the same interests and tastes. This one year must be
nice and enjoyable.

I'm not entirely sure what this means, but if I interpreted it correctly (something along the
lines of western girls being into the short and sweet), I do feel a bit offended.

gato -

Reisen,

There are many old threads on dating here. Take a look at these two:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=13554
Foreign girls and dating
http://www. /showthread.php?t=19722
Any change for serious relationship with Chinese girls?

I think you are limiting your chances by only considering foreigners for a boyfriend (though you
say you are not). There are only so many foreign boys to go around, and as you said, there is a
lot of competition for them. Sex and love can go together (sex is a form of love depending on your
definition), but yes, most guys are willing to take sex without the love, whether they are foreign
or not.

jonaspony -

Quote:

Yeah there are foreigners like this but a very small majority

A small majority Muyongshi? I think that may be a Freudian slip.

I think your foreign friends are right. In the West, courtship places passion for sex first. Even
sincere men who want a deep relationship will usually follow this way. Then after after a few
weeks they might find they don't really like the girl, or they remember they prefer to be single.
So the couple fights or breaks up. And they go on to look for someone else that is 'just right'.
But I suspect everyone is much the same - they are looking for intimacy, deep friendship. In my
opinion, Westerners are simply less intelligent about it and the way to find it.

As you will be going abroad again soon, you will probably feel unsettled. It will seem meaningless
to make long-term friends. And you seem uninterested in a short-term relationship on Western
terms. While I disagree with Muyongshi about how many foreign men just want sex, that doesn't
really matter because it's up to you to decide. You will meet foreigners of many kinds, but don't
worry about what they want. If you want friendship and fun, then that's the best thing anyone can
want. And if men (foreign or otherwise) don't like it, that's their problem, not yours.

There are men who will want friendship with you. There's guys like Muyongshi and me, but I'd
probably fall in love with you anyway - even if I didn't want to. I think I already have!. Life is
full of such complications. So have courage to do what you think is best, and stop worrying. It
won't be so easy to find exactly what you are looking for, but you can still have fun while you
are looking. Good luck with everything.

coolnicholas -

I don't know how to describe you!! shame

muyongshi -

Quote:

but I'd probably fall in love with you anyway

Are you making an offer to her?

Quote:

I think your foreign friends are right. In the West, courtship places passion for sex first.

With the majority of people I know (including my European friends) it is not this way but hey
maybe I just run in odd circles...

jonaspony -

Quote:

I don't know how to describe you!! shame

What? who?

Reisen... be as idealistic as you want. But just remember few other people are so idealistic.
That's what makes idealism great, heroic and very difficult.

jonaspony -

Quote:

With the majority of people I know (including my European friends) it is not this way but hey
maybe I just run in odd circles.

Hmmm... well that's my experience, and my observation. I have a truckload of Beijing friends that
are out for the sex whether they admit it or not. Those who don't admit it carry on serial
relationships in the Western style: chase, bed, become dissatisfied and leave. I was comparing
this to the more 'traditional' Chinese style of prolonged platonic friendship, in which time I
sort out if I really like someone or am just infatuated. Maybe it's just Beijing.

I wish I ran in your circles, no matter how odd. But I find it hard to believe that the West has
not placed a very high priority on sexual attraction.

Quote:

Are you making an offer to her?

Careful. I think i am also falling in love with you and Gato - well at least with your posts. But
no offer there either, sorry. Cheers to ya both.

YuehanHao -

Reisen,

I could not hope to answer your question, but I will write because I am a Westerner who did marry
a Chinese woman (who had earlier come to my home country). I can understand your preference for a
companion from a particular culture, and came to see an unconscious preference in my own behavior
at that time; although obviously a relationship is ultimately between two individuals -- thus, a
part of the cultural attraction in my case was just statistics, rather than a requirement.

But as was earlier said, I agree you may be ultimately happier to focus on all you have, rather
than what you lack. Maybe sometime in the future, presuming you achieve your objective, you will
look back to now and wish you could recapture the old freedom or some other youthful intangible.
Trying too hard is nearly as ineffective as not trying at all -- not to mention more risky.

Anyway, enough of these maxims -- after all, does anyone really follow advice from an outsider who
can't understand her/him?

约翰好！

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Chinese Pinyin - BLCU Feb 2008-contact each other -

2008-11-20T08:48:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
BLCU Feb 2008-contact each other
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franksank -

Anyone joining Feb 2008 in BLCU?

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misheast -

I'm in the middle of deciding that now. My idea is to study from February through August, which is
when I would start grad school in the USA. I'm having trouble finding what is required of me to
apply and get in, and then, how to make sure I get the right visa. Is there a webpage that goes
over this? I always have trouble finding things on the BCLU website.

franksank -

http://www.blcu.edu.cn/lzb/lx_back/english/index.htm

There's prety much all the info you need. You'll need to send them a letter with the required
documents in order to aply for a visa and a place at the university. It's easy and it takes about
a month for the answer to arrive.
About housing, I've booked a hotel in front of the BLCU and contacted some agencies in order to
have apartments ready to be checked upon my arrival. I think it's the best option.
Anyway, I can give you more info after I get there.

Marisa -

Hi!! I am also planning to join BLCU in February Nice to meet you!

franksank -

Have you send the documents they need ?

franksank -

Read that you had a difficulty in send the T/T.

Marisa -

yeah, I've solved this problem already Thanks for your message. I've contacted some education
agency in Beijing, they will help me to send money. You know we've got rather stupid laws in
Ukraine

franksank -

Please do keep me updated about your progress.I had send my documents a month ago and have not
recieved a reply yet.

peahead -

hey there, i'm planning to join BLCU from feb-aug too...anyone got their accommadation sorted yet?

franksank -

Hi,
I had send my documents a month ago and have not got any reply till now.Send them a mail asking
for thestatus still no reply.Have you got yours?

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Free Chinese Lesson - Text annotation and vocabulary extraction tools -

2008-11-19T09:01:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Text annotation and vocabulary extraction tools
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dporter1465 -

Anyone looking for helpful tools for reading practice might be interested in these two new
freebies from Clavis Sinica:

Chinese Text Annotator - Provides a printable pinyin annotation of any Chinese text. Depending on
your skill level, you can leave some characters unannotated to avoid using the pinyin as a crutch.
You can paste in text or load a file from your computer.

Vocabulary Review Sheet Creator - Extracts vocabulary words (characters and/or compounds) from any
text and lists them in a printable document with pinyin and definitions. You can choose your skill
level so as only to include words of the appropriate difficulty level.

Both of these (and a few others) are available on the Clavis Sinica Free Resources page. Just go
to www.clavisinica.com and click on the Free Resources link at the bottom of the page. Comments
welcome!

David

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Pnyin - Little Translation needed... Please! -

2008-11-18T09:16:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Little Translation needed... Please!
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Prometheus -

Hi all,

Can someone please tell me what this two characters mean?

http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=charsms1.jpg

For those interested, just got them in a letter from a friend of mine - she knows that I don't
understand it hehe - and well I'm curious.

src="http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/5130/charsms1.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting
at www.ImageShack.us" />

Thanks!

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xiaojiang216 -

It says 你好. It literally means "you good". It is a greeting similar to "hello" in English.
However the first character is written incorrectly.

mesuper -

你好!

Similar expresstions are;

1. How are you!

2. How do you do!

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Chinese Mandarin - Try to read one of the four "classics" or something easier, suggestions please. - Page 2 -

2008-11-17T08:57:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Try to read one of the four "classics" or something easier, suggestions please.
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rob07 -

If you are at the right level, then I think the abridged 红楼梦 mentioned by Myriam is
extremely good. The right level is where you know basic word combinations based on say 1500-2000
characters and are used to reading materials not more than a few pages long, and want to move on
to reading something longer that is not foreign friend propaganda and learn more vocab, but do not
feel up to a full length novel yet.

The abridged 红楼梦 is written in simple language, and gives you the English and pinyin for the
harder expressions every few pages, and it gives you a story to follow that is about 100,000
characters long.

Of course, this story should not be confused with the real 红楼梦 (for this I agree reading the
Hawkes translation is really worthwhile). They get it down to 100,000 characters by simplifying
the 宝玉-黛玉-宝钗 love triangle and cutting out anything not directly relevant to that.
This makes definitely it learning materials rather than a serious attempt to tell the real
红楼梦 story.

The same people (Sinolingua I think) also do abridged versions of 茅盾's 子夜, 钱锺书's
围城 and 巴金's 家, 春 and 秋. While I think the abridged 红楼梦 is very good, these
other books lend themselves to abridgement much more than 红楼梦 and are hence even better.

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Lu -

Quote:

They get it down to 100,000 characters by simplifying the 宝玉-黛玉-宝钗 love triangle and
cutting out anything not directly relevant to that.

This is completely killing the book, if you ask me. Then why not just tell the whole story in five
sentences. If the HLM were only this love story, I don't think I would have liked it as much as I
do. It's a fun and interesting read (in translation at least) exactely because of all the
sidelines and all the million characters.

活著 is a good book, I heard, and not too hard. Mianmian also writes rather easy, but you have
to like the kind of novel. I read part of A Q in a bilingual edition, that also worked rather
well, as would other Lu Xun works. Or you could try comics and manga.

Long Pan -

As I like reading but that my Chinese level is not good enough to go through novels, Chinese
friends advised me the 读者series , which is a compilation of short stories around the same
topic (see here the list of the topics). Not always easy but many stories are reachable for
uper-intermediate level.

I also enjoy a lot this bilingual series with stories from my childhood (Gulliver's Travel,
Robinson Crusoe, Aladdin...) which you'll find in all Xinhua bookshop for a few yuans.

Shadowdh -

Thank you for all the suggestions... It definitely gives me something to look at and think about...

skylee -

You could try 三毛's books. Also try 幾米's books (you can find them in any bookstores).
Sample the on-line version of one of his most famous works "向左走向右走" here (click on the
page numbers at the bottom to move forwards). His other works here.

You may also wish to take a look at this thread ->
http://www. /showthread.php?t=1635

Shadowdh -

Spot on Skylee, thanks for the links... thats what I love about this site.. so many helpful,
wonderful people... cheers all

Pravit -

Hey, just a while ago I had a pretty long thread about this same topic. At the end I listed all of
the books that I ended up buying (which, ironically, I have no time to read now, thanks to GREs
and senior design projects).

The thread is here:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=18012

Don' t know your level, but Duzhe magazine is easy and there are two issues monthly. Don't
overlook the sections in bookstores for young readers, either. I don't know enough about
Hongloumeng to comment about reading an abridged version or not, but you could definitely read an
abridged version of some novel of lesser significance. Yonglin enjoyed the abridged version of
"Gangtie shi zenme liancheng de"(How the steel was tempered) very much, and it seems there are
many Chinese who have read this book at one point in their lives.

Shadowdh -

Thanks for the links Pravit...

I have just bought 活着 it looks like its what I am looking for... started to read it and seemed
about the right level while challenging my character knowledge and understanding nicely. Thanks
for all the suggestions, I will try to look up the books/links/magazines and newspapers but as I
have just picked up my books today I think they will give me enough to look at for the next little
bit... cheers

wushijiao -

How do you like 活着 so far, Shadowdh? Keep us updated...

Si5DOGG82 -

How would you rate 兄弟 as far as difficulty.

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Learning Mandarin - what's the reading? -

2008-11-16T09:01:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
what's the reading?
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aafrophone -

i was looking up wow a name would be written in chinese and i was given this.
http://chineseculture.about.com/libr...lna_donnie.htm
how do you read those characters?

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aquariumturtle -

Tang Ni

aafrophone -

what about tones?

JimmySeal -

2 2 in Mandarin.

aafrophone -

Are those in traditional? if now how are they written?

JimmySeal -

They're traditional characters.

in_lab -

Those characters look the same in "simplified" form.

LiYuanXi -

These 2 words are the same in both traditional and simplified forms~

in_lab -

That's what I meant to say.

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Chinese Pinyin - Everything is making me sick! - Page 6 -

2008-11-15T09:01:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Everything is making me sick!
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Page 6 of 6 First < 45 6

Rincewind -

Heat stroke is a big problem, I agree. I had very bad sun stroke one when I was in Cyprus. It was
42C and I took a boat trip. While on the trip I went swimming and of course would has swallowed
some salt water. This will make you dehydrate more. The whole time I sat outside on the deck with
no T-shirt and no sun cream. Later that evening I felt a little queezy had a bad headache but
wasn't sick. The sun burn was worse, it itched and itched for days after I got home.

Also, when I was in Beijing two years back I got a little heat exhaustion. Each evening I would
feel unwell and be off my food. Come the morning I'd be fine again then next evening feeling bad.
The cause of course being out in the sun (well this is Beijing - bright haze) all day and not
enough water.

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Chinese Mandarin - Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1 - Page 3 -

2008-11-14T09:05:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1
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Page 3 of 11 < 12 3 45 > »

cming -

I too have used the Heisig method (together with flashcards!) for studying Japanese before, I
would like to offer the following suggestions to anyone considering it for Chinese: Its not for
everyone, but if you have the time, it will be time well spent!

For me it did work well, and I'm now going to continue on with "Remembering the Kanji 3" - for
Japanese, includes extra characters not included in the first 2 books. NB. for those not familiar,
you learn the meanings and radicals first (Book 1), and the pronunciation and usage follows (Book
2). Resist the temptation to even peek into Book 2 until you have thoroughly completed Book 1!

1) You need to follow it fairly religiously for it to work, no skipping sections, etc. Also review
regularly.

2) Do not worry if the method seems strange at first, you will understand it after a while.

3) Have a creative mind - that is probably the most difficult part - making up some of the
mnemonics yourself which you need to do after the first section - assuming he is following the
same approach as the Japanese one. (I personally found that once you've completed book 2, even if
you forget the mnemonics, you'll still remember the meaning and sound, and compound words easily,
and you will learn to think like a native speaker - quickly and efficiently - which you really
need if you want to evene be half good at your Chinese!).

4) It is possible to study Chinese using other methods whilst completing the course, but I'd
reccomend not doing this if you possibly can, once you start you'll want to finish as soon as
possible, and dont have any other distractions - I completed Books 1 & 2 in less than 6 months -
part time, but I did spend about 2 hours each day (including weekends), and regularly reviewed
what I had learnt - this is made easy.

5) If possible, once you have completed the first 50 characters or so, get a native Chinese, (or
at least someone who knows chinese characters very well) to physically check and give you some
pointers on your handwriting, and make sure you tell them not to mention the pronunciation of each
character, just show you how to write it properly - after this you probably won't need any extra
help, and your writing will be much neater, and well proportioned. You won't regret taking this
step!

Regards
Cming - Sydney, Australia

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leosmith -

Hey - I know 84 out of the 90 traditional characters in the PDF already (from my Japanese). A lot
of their meanings are different though........

Mugi -

Jimmy,

I quote from the first two lines of my original post: "This statement is fundamentally wrong for
the majority of characters ... While an individual character may not tell you directly how it
should be pronounced, characters in general are highly phonetic."
I agree that "there is nothing in the nature of a character dictating that it must be verbalized
one way or another" for characters that do not employ phonetic elements, of which 白 is one.
However, as I said initially, this is not true for the majority of characters. While you may be
legitimately able to attach /wait/ (white) or some other pronunciation to this character, that's
where it stops; you can't attach this pronunciation (and its associated meaning, which is the aim
of the authors) to 百, 柏, 伯, 佰, 泊, 舶, 铂, 箔, 帛, 魄, 拍, 迫, 粕 or 珀. You
can, however, attach the pronunciation of "bai/bo/pai/po" to each of these, to varying degrees.
And as soon as you move away from standard Putonghua, then you usually end up with only one or two
alternatives (as opposed to the four here). So for any person literate in Chinese (or Japanese or
Korean for that matter), there is a component in each of these characters telling you how to
pronounce it.

With regard to the mnemonics, although there is a disclaimer line, the author doesn't explain
which "etymologies" are accurate and which are pure fancy. If the pop etymologies were identified
in some way (marked with an asterisk?), then I wouldn't have a problem with them. The end result
is that while at an elementary level these mnemonics may help learners remember what the
characters mean, for those who go on to a higher level of language acquisition or more academic
pursuits, these pop etymologies end up confusing or sometimes even embarrassing the learner.

JimmySeal -

Quote:

"This statement is fundamentally wrong for the majority of characters ... While an individual
character may not tell you directly how it should be pronounced, characters in general are highly
phonetic."

The authors at no point say that there is no phonetic element to the characters. They said,
"In other words, there is nothing in the nature of a character dictating that it must be
verbalized one way or another."
That is, even if historically, 伯 is phonetically related to 白, there is nothing intrinsic
about it that dictates it has to be pronounced "bai" or "bo" or any other way, so there is nothing
inaccurate about the quoted sentence. The only truth is that in Ancient Chinese, these characters
were pronounced the same, so if someone assigns two unrelated English words to them, that is their
prerogative. As you yourself have said, the Japanese have been doing it for centuries.

Quote:

With regard to the mnemonics, although there is a disclaimer line, the author doesn't explain
which "etymologies" are accurate and which are pure fancy.

This is not a course in hanzi etymology. Learners would be well advised to not assume any of it as
historical fact, and there is no need to mark deviations from established theories. Anyone who has
read a few pages of the book (which you clearly haven't) will immediately see that the mnemonic
stories are mostly of the author's own design. Anyone who would confuse these with actual
etymologies shouldn't be trying to learn Chinese and should probably get their head examined while
they're at it:

Quote:

十 - ten
Turn this character 45º either way and you have the x used for the Roman numeral ten.

Quote:

九 - nine
...
* When this character is used as a primitive, we shall take it to refer to the game of baseball,
the meaning being derived from the nine players who make up a team.

Quote:

丸 - pill
One of the scourges of sports like modern baseball has been the use of performance-enhancing
drugs, those tiny little pills that have helped turn honest competition into cut-throat business.
Now look at the character and picture it as a bottle of pills hanging on the thigh of a baseball
player like a pez-dispenser, ready for the popping as the need arises.

Quote:

工 - work
The pictograph of an I-beam, like the kind that is used in heavy construction work on buildings
and bridges, gives us the character for work.
*Since the key word can be too abstract when used as a primitive element, we will often revert to
the clearer image of an I-beam.

Quote:

項 - item
To the right we see a page and to the left an element for I-beam. The item referred to here is not
some specific object but an entry on an “itemized” list. Each item in the list you have to
imagine here is preceded by a little I-beam—not a drawing, but an actual iron I-beam. Imagine
lugging a list like that around the grocery store!

What's more, the authors only provide mnemonics for the first half of the book, before leaving the
reader to invent their own stories for the rest of the book and (I presume) all of the second
book. If they were really trying to "pass off mnemonics and pop etymologies as genuine character
etymologies" they wouldn't do that would they?

Mugi -

Quote:

Originally Posted by leosmith
It sounds like you're saying in over 50% of the characters you can tell how it's pronounced by
looking at one of it's radicals. I've heard it's more like 30%. Am I understanding you correctly?

Not quite. The radical is the part of the character that hints at its meaning, or sometimes is
merely the part under which the character is listed in a traditional dictionary. It seldom acts as
a phonetic component in a compound character. Any given character only has one radical. I don't
have any figures at hand, but 形声字 make up the majority of characters, and by their nature
they have a phonetic component. In Modern Standard Chinese, the phonetic system is far from
perfect, but it's still good enough to narrow down the odds of a possible pronunciation
considerably. Take Jimmy's example of 白 - every single character that uses 白 as a phonetic
element is pronounced either "bai", "pai", "bo", "po", or in two cases (貊, 陌) "mo". A
character incorporating the 白 phonetic will never (I hesitate to use this term as someone is
bound to find an exception! ) be pronounced any other way - it will never be "dong", "le", "ma" or
any other of the hundreds of possibilities. This scenario is applicable to most 形声字 - at a
guess you're probably looking at 60-70% of all characters.

Quote:

I haven't read said book, but I read on a forum somewhere that one of the myths that DeFrancis
dismisses is the ability to read most characters by looking at one of it's radicals. Do I have it
backwards?

Essentially, yes. Firstly, as I mentioned above, the radical of a character points at its meaning,
not pronunciation, so DeFrancis doesn't say you can know the pronunciation by looking at the
radical. But the real point is that DeFrancis wants to dispell the myth that Chinese characters
are in no way phonetic. Anyone who has a working knowledge of even a couple of hundred characters
can't help but notice that some characters that share the same component are pronounced the same
or very similar. The phonetic system is actually much more complete than what many people think.
The more characters you know, the more apparent the links between them become. And if you know
another Sinitic language (dialect), things become even clearer. An understanding of how sounds
changed from Middle Chinese to the present also helps tremendously. Armed with all that knowledge,
it is indeed possible to fairly accurately guess the pronunciation of an unknown character. That
said, most people don't have all that knowledge, nor even wish to acquire it. But simply knowing
that a character containing 白 will be pronounced "bai", "pai", "bo", "po" or occassionaly "mo"
is a huge help - you don't need the know the whys and wherefors.

In my opinion, more effort should be made in emphasizing the phonetic value of phonetic components
when teaching characters; i.e., when teaching the character 白, I think it would be beneficial to
note that when it appears as a component of another character, that character will have the
pronunciation of "bai, pai, bo, po or mo". You can't expect someone to remember all that right at
the start when they first learn 白, but that information would serve well as future reference
when the student comes across 百, and then 伯 and so on.

Edit: Found a couple of anomolies - 怕 and 帕. The former at least had lost its final stop (if
it ever had one) by the time it was first recorded about 2000 years ago in the 說文解字.

gato -

Quote:

"In other words, there is nothing in the nature of a character dictating that it must be
verbalized one way or another."

JimmySeal and Mugi are both right. It depends on what one means by "nature."

If the nature of characters includes their history and etymology, then yes, their "nature" does
suggest that one pronounce them a certain way.

But if "nature" only includes something that is "intrinsic" to the characters, then no, you can
pronounce the characters however you want because the characters are just squiggles on a piece of
paper or on a screen (is there anything "intrinsic" to characters other than just lines or
pixels?) -- just as one can pronounce French words as if they were English, or English words as if
they were French.

OneEye -

I think the more important question (as opposed to the ones being debated) is "Does the method
work?" If it does, that should be enough. Anybody buying the book as a guide to etymology or an
explanation of the entire written Chinese language is misguided at best. It is a tool for learning
the characters, nothing more. And I believe the answer to the question, based on many reviews,
forum discussions, and blogs, is "YES!"

gato -

I'm sure the system works because it's just an expanded version of the mnemonic system that many
of us already use. The one issue I see is the suggestion (I'm not sure who made it) that one
should memorize 1500 or 3000 characters before learning any words or doing any simple reading.
That would take seven months of 2 hours a day of study given LeoSmith's experience. I think most
students would get incredibly bored studying just characters for that long.

JimmySeal -

It's a common misconception that Heisig prescribes studying nothing other than the contents of the
book until it's done. This is incorrect. He advises against learning hanzi readings, or deviating
from the order of progress in the book.
This still leaves people free to learn Chinese from a wide range of pinyin learning materials, and
children's books with zhuyin ruby text. It may feel a bit un-Chinese to be learning from pinyin
materials at first (in this, Japanese learners are a bit better off because they can still fall
back on kana), and it's true that learners can't take advantage of the benefits that come from
connecting a word to its characters until the book is finished. But I think in the long run, it's
worth the initial sacrifices.

Some people learn Chinese for years without approaching the hanzi at all (I know someone who has
been studying 4 years, is quite fluent, and can barely read a single character), so if it means an
easier time overall and a better understanding of the characters, then putting off other character
studies until the books are done is the right move to make.

leosmith -

Quote:

That would take seven months of 2 hours a day of study given LeoSmith's experience.

That's true, or a month for 8-10 hrs per day (don't laugh - there are several people who have done
this). But I know where you saw that piece of advice gato: 10,000 sentence method phase 2.

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Chinese language - 建议 -

2008-11-13T09:04:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
建议
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wontonsoup -

is a sentence stuctured using 建议 like this correct?

我建议你多参加体育运动, 因为会对你的身体健康.

i recommend you play more sports because it will keep your body healthy.

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skylee -

Suggested minimum correction -

我建议你多参加体育运动, 因为那会令你的身体健康.

bloove -

Okay,Tanks for your advsing,I will do it once a year.

muddy -

Yes, the usage of 建议 is right.
And the second part of the sentence sounds not naturally,skylee's suggestion is good.

madizi -

Could someone explain the difference between 建议 and 劝 or 劝告?

skylee -

建議 is to suggest / propose something.

勸 / 勸告 is to persuade someone to do something that is considered good, or to disuade someone
from doing something that is not good.

madizi -

I see. In one textbook, I saw the translation of 劝 as "to advise" and Kingsoft Powerword 2007
dictionary also has this meaning. Although it also includes "persuade".

Does that mean that when you want to use "to advise" in Chinese sentence, it is safer to use
建议?

skylee -

Quote:

Does that mean that when you want to use "to advise" in Chinese sentence, it is safer to use
建议?

Depending on the context, I would think so. But surely you understand sometimes there is no
word-to-word exact match.

I often use the word "advise" at work, which is an English environment. Like we advise the staff
to do something, the staff is advised to improve their performance, to issue advisory letter to
the staff, etc. I am not sure if I have to say the same things in Chinese what term I should use.
It is not really 勸告. It is more like "to instruct" but I say it in a nice way. In such case I
think 建議 is much more appropriate.

madizi -

I see. Thank you Skylee for explanation.

wontonsoup -

what in world's mnemonics?

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Free Chinese Lesson - Have any ESL teachers gotten into a good MBA program? -

2008-11-12T09:02:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Have any ESL teachers gotten into a good MBA program?
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mandarinstudent -

I posted this question on Dave's ESL Cafe, but only received one straight answer...

Right now I am in the process of applying to MBA programs. I'm writing the application essays and
now I am in the "paranoid stage". I have decent academic stats (Click here for more detail), but
now I am a bit worried about my work experience. Before, I was confident that my experience as an
English teacher in China would be an asset, as it is "unique". However, after cruising countless
MBA forums, reading up on admission gurus' advice, and researching my target schools, I have yet
to find ONE SINGLE ESL teacher that has successfully gained admission to a top 25 US MBA program.
I can't even find a story where an ESL teacher applied to such a program! Of course, this isn't
going to change where I apply, but I would like to know if anyone has successfully taken this path
before me. Like all MBA applicants at one point or another in the application process, I'm just
feeling a bit paranoid now.

Here is my question: Do any of you know of any ESL teachers that got into a top 25 program? Are
there ANY other people like me, or am I the only ESL teacher aiming for a decent school? I know
that knowing X teacher got into Y program doesn't guarantee me anything, but it would be nice to
have a frame of reference. People in other professions like managers, engineers, consultants,
etc., all can see how their fellow colleagues fare in the MBA process, but there is no such
information for ESL teachers. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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novemberfog -

No doubt you have a very unique experience. But that doesn't give you a leg up on any of the other
applicants. There are thousands of thousands of ESL teachers in many countries all over the world.
You chose to spend your time in China, while another applicant may have chose to spend her time
building a framework for her finance career. There are probably people who worked in China or
other countries for investment firms or international firms trying to get into a top 25 MBA. So it
will no doubt be competitive, just as it is for getting into top law schools.

What you need do to do is demonstrate your business/entreprenuial side in your statement in the
application. I don't know how long you have been teaching, but generally most work at least three
years before they stop working to go for an MBA. Executive MBAs usually require more work
experience, normally 5-10 years with some management level experience. So think about your work
experience as an ESL teacher and try to show how it demonstrates your business apptitude. What
have you done at your ESL school(s) that demonstrates your ability to succeed in a business work
place? Have you worked on any marketing and advertising campaigns with your school? Have you
performed any management functions, such as supervising entry-level teachers and managing their
time schedule? Think of anything you can use to sell yourself to the school.

mandarinstudent -

Novemberfog, thanks for the advice. I already know what I have to do, as I've spent COUNTLESS
hours researching the MBA admissions process and prospective schools. My question is whether or
not any ESL teachers before me have successfully made it into a good MBA program, not what I need
to do to get in. I already have my own game plan, I'm just curious as to how other ESL teachers
have done. I know that I can't be the first one to try to go from ESL teacher to top 25 MBA
program. Anyway...I hope I'm not...

simonlaing -

Hi MandarinStudent,

I didn't get into a US Business program, but I did go to UK one. Leeds University has a Joint
program MA Busines and Chinese. (It was funded partly by the UK government)
There were 4 other ex English Teachers in the program. Most of whom also had decent Chinese skills
and experiences.

However I can't recommend the program that much as it wasn't as rigorus as US program. (Well my BU
undergraduate program anyway). I have Dual citizenship and thought it would help reduce the
tuition but it still ended up costing as much as a good state school in the US. Even though it was
half the cost of London Uni and living costs.

I found the confidence gained from teaching and presentation skills where helpful in the degree
(there was lots of presentations and public speaking ).Plus understanding Chinese working style
and part time jobs as a bar manager, AC company PR speaker, etc. Gave me input into the classes.

The good thing was that I kept most of my Chinese and even built on my vocab some. The bad part
was that program left me a bit wanting.

I think it is possible, Good luck,
Simon

P.S. I think HK Univeristy has an MBA program that is decent if you get shut down from the other
programs.

mandarinstudent -

Simonlaing, thanks for the response. Its good to know that there are other ESL teachers trying the
same thing. Any stories from US MBA programs?

mandarinstudent -

Any more examples?

mandarinstudent -

Well, I've been accepted by the University of Minnesota' s full time MBA program. I just missed
the top 25 (the program is ranked #27 http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsa...rad/mba/search).
Actually, the program was ranked #25 until today, when the new rankings came out. If I made this
post yesterday, I could claim top 25...

So, this shows that it is possible for an ESL teacher to get into a good MBA program. If any other
teachers out there want to make a career change and would like my take on the application process,
feel free to PM me. Obviously, I can't tell you how to get into Harvard, but maybe I can give some
advice on how to get into the top 25.

simonlaing -

Hey Mandarin Student,

Thanks for the update. Congrats on getting into the program.

I have a question for you on finances. Are you taking out a loan to pay for tuition or will you
pay out of pocket?
If you do have a loan do you think that will affect if you will be able to come straight back to
the PR of C, or will look for a job in the US to pay for the loan? Or you were planning to work in
the US either way?

Thanks, Congratulations again.
Simon

mandarinstudent -

Quote:

Hey Mandarin Student,

Thanks for the update. Congrats on getting into the program.

I have a question for you on finances. Are you taking out a loan to pay for tuition or will you
pay out of pocket?
If you do have a loan do you think that will affect if you will be able to come straight back to
the PR of C, or will look for a job in the US to pay for the loan? Or you were planning to work in
the US either way?

Thanks, Congratulations again.
Simon

First, thanks for the congrats!

Of course I will be taking out a loan. I definitely don't have a spare $100K lying around. I came
to China right after graduating. Let's just say that you can't get rich teaching English in
China...

Ideally, after graduating I would like to work for a company that has offices in China, then get
transfered to China with the nice expat package that comes with it. I figure if I jump on a plane
to China right after graduation I will be in the same position I was when I first came to
China--freshly graduated with no experience. I learned from my mistake the first time.

I want to work in the Minneapolis area for a while and gain experience before I think about coming
back to China. First of all, the University of Minnesota has great connections in the Minneapolis
area, which recently was voted the number 1 city in the US for business
(http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...FF9194DC6C0%7D). Secondly, my whole extended family lives
in the Minneapolis area. Granted, the University of Minnesota is no Harvard, but it has a 93%
placement rate within 3 months of graduation and an average salary of around $100K after bonuses.
The only catch is, because the University of Minnesota is a reigonal school (vs. a "national
school" like Stanford, etc.), it places most of its graduates in the Minneapolis area. Also, if
you want to work in something like Investment Banking or want to be a consultant at one of the
"Top 3", then you will probably be struggling if you attend U of M. Since I want to live in
Minneapolis while I gain experience before heading back to China and I don't want to be an
Investment Banker, the U of M seems like a good deal to me. Given that my salary in China is so
low, even if I end up earning a salary below the average after graduating, my return on investment
is still extremely high.

So, there you have it...that's my plan for the next 5 years or so. Hope this helps any other
ESLers thinking of going for an MBA.

simonlaing -

Looks like a good plan.

In hindsight your looks better than my UK masters . 3 months for placement sounds really good,
plus with the US MBA you are garraunteed a good base salary.

Like most places in the US there are trade links to China with the Midwest and Minnesota. I used
to know some people importing Ginseng from Wisconsin and Minnesota. Some others were in the
machine tool trade with some midwest firms. I'm sure you will find you way back to China
eventually.

Good luck.

Simon

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Learning Mandarin - Dalian University of Technology - Page 2 -

2008-11-11T08:59:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Dalian University of Technology
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Thundercat8 -

Excellent. Will be good to meet you Are you taking the diagnostic test tomorrow too? I'm a little
nervous, though know I needn't be!

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nairbv -

cool, yeah, I took the test today. who are you? this is brian... I had my big backpack with me
today with all my stuff because I moved from a hotel to an apartment today... maybe you saw me.

why stress about the test? it doesn't matter how well you do, it just determines what class you go
into. You could even do "too well," and end up in a class that was too difficult. I'm sure if you
really want to be in a different class you can change, but I'll trust them to decide what's best
for me.

Thundercat8 -

Haha, what a small world. I'm Scott, the English guy who waited with you in the office before we
found out there was no reason to. Hope you moved into your apartment alright. I guess I'll see you
on Monday at the opening ceremony then. Have a good weekend

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Chinese language - I Hate Hanzi - Page 3 -

2008-11-10T09:00:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
I Hate Hanzi
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atitarev -

Theoretically, you are right, DrZero but people who go for the trouble and learn Chinese are not
satisfied just to be able to understand and speak. You must create or get into a special
environment for this - it's not easy to learn and pick up words without reading - a number of
books, audio recordings, teachers who are going to explain the words to you without writing them
down. Overseas born Chinese are a good example of this but many of them are unhappy about not
being able to read and write.

There's not enough material WITHOUT characters and not very useful or interesting. This was
discussed in this forum - learning Chinese without learning to read is not practically possible. I
would emphasize that learning to read and/or to write characters seriously slows down your
understanding and speaking, although they are different skills.

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gato -

Just to add, most overseas-born Chinese have their mom and dad to explain new words to them, but
that's not really as effective as being able to look up words yourself in a dictionary. Most of
them have trouble carrying on a conversation in Chinese beyond simple topics.

hamihaha -

Sthubbar, do you on purpose say things contrary to the norm?

Quote:

They are not beautiful and if they are that's a bad thing.

Chinese language is interresting because of the characters. It's not as melodic than Italian or
French, more something like Dutch...

Quote:

Learning them is a painful processes of rote memorization

Like every language or every skills. Ask a musician, ask a painter...

Quote:

The more one learns the harder it becomes.

The more characters you learn, the easier it gets of course! You get familiar with all component.
And the biggest part of chinese characters are not ideogram, but phonetics signs... then as easy
to remember than any alphabet.

Susansu

Quote:

It is said that Chinese is one of those most difficult languages to learn all over the world.

Try to learn German! The grammar is impossible... even for German!
Chinese is not a difficult language, but the first step is higher for European.

sthubbar -

Thanks everyone for not jumping all over me. Some of you even have similar frustrations.

DrZero, I am convinced that I must learn to read because I have never met an advanced level
non-native speaker that can't read. I have also, never met a foreign born Chinese that learned
Chinese by speaking to their family that is an advanced speaker. Those people are about at the
level I am at right now. They can fool you into thinking they can speak Chinese though there are
huge gaps in their knowledge.

Ari,

Quote:

Characters got easier for me the more I learned.

I'm just curious, how many have you learned. I used to sorta feel that way. I am now hitting about
2300 and as I mentioned in the original post, the new characters are interfering with previous
learned ones.

hamihama,

Quote:

do you on purpose say things contrary to the norm?

Yes. The first comment about the beauty stems from my frustrations and also from the fact that
most times people refer to the beauty of the characters it is to Chinese calligraphy. As most
people on this board know, 90% of what is considered beautiful Chinese calligraphy is
unintelligible to the vast majority of present day Chinese. Case in point, was out for a dinner
with one of my highly educated Chinese teachers. There was a beautiful painting on the wall with
tons of beautiful Hanzi calligraphy. I already knew the answer, but asked anyway, "What does that
mean?" Her response, "Hahha, you have to be joking, I can recognize some of the characters, though
have no idea what it means."

Quote:

The more characters you learn, the easier it gets of course!

Are you native born Chinese learner? If not, how many characters have you learned?

Quote:

...as easy to remember than any alphabet

I'm putting my money on native born Chinese or an extreme beginner. I could never imagine a second
language learner of Chinese making such a statement.

imron -

Quote:

the new characters are interfering with previous learned ones.

How is that you are learning new characters? Are you learning them from word lists, or are you
learning them from the context of written material?

Personally I find it really difficult to just go through word lists to learn characters, and this
is especially so if I come across similar looking characters during the same learning session (I
run into the same interference problems you mention). As a result I try to pick up all new vocab
from reading native materials. I find this helps a great deal as the context surrounding the
word/character learnt helps me keep it separate it from similar characters (even when I encounter
those characters during the same learning session).

atitarev -

Hamihaha, you are wrong

Phonetics seldom help to guess the correct pronunciation, when you know both the reading and which
part IS the phonetic, then you can say, oh yes we know how to read it

German is easy, no problem with the grammar. Do you need help? And Chinese is hard even for
Chinese, it's easy if you grow up with Chinese characters. Having said this, I know how to learn
characters, only it's a long way for me before I become fluent... I learned German by reading
simple books first, then more complex ones, like any European language can be learned.

DrZero -

Quote:

DrZero, I am convinced that I must learn to read because I have never met an advanced level
non-native speaker that can't read. I have also, never met a foreign born Chinese that learned
Chinese by speaking to their family that is an advanced speaker. Those people are about at the
level I am at right now. They can fool you into thinking they can speak Chinese though there are
huge gaps in their knowledge.

This may be true. I'm not quite convinced. I study with pinyin only and I can communicate in a lot
of situations. I feel that if I continue studying hard, then by the time I go back to China one
year from now, I will be able to converse very readily about a broad range of topics. Will I be
fluent? Well, there's no agreed-upon definition. Will I be discussing literature? Of course not.
But I don't discuss literature too terribly much in English, anyway. And attempting to learn
thousands of characters and reading literature would, I believe, slow me down in achieving my goal
of sitting around and talking fluidly about whatever comes to mind next time I go to China. I hope
I will be understanding approximately 80 to 85 percent of your average Chinese TV drama.
It is true, I believe that to become a truly advanced user of Chinese, one needs to read fluently.
One is unlikely to have an advanced discussion of current events or technical topics until one
learns to do that. What I am interested in doing is first achieving my goal of what I would call
"practical fluency," and then, when I see that I've hit a wall, moving on to intensive character
study and getting to that next level of being a truly sophisticated speaker (hopefully I will
start on that goal next year.) I cannot see the point of bogging myself down until I have
practical fluency, though. I guess I would call it putting the cart before the horse.
Bear in kind, I know many students of Chinese origin in the U.S. who have extremely sophisticated
vocabularies because they've had to pass the TOEFL and, more importantly, the GRE to enter
graduate school here, but they still lack practical fluency in English!
In the interest of full disclosure, I am married to a Chinese woman who happens to have many
Chinese friends who come to our place often, so I get a lot of exposure to the spoken language,
including idioms, vulgarities, etc. When I hear them, I ask what they mean and write them down on
a flashcard. We also travel to China periodically and stay with her non-English-speaking
relatives, so that helps too. It is in this environment that I think my approach works, and
probably if I did not have these conditions, I would find pinyin study a little boring and focus
instead on characters.

gato -

Quote:

Bear in kind, I know many students of Chinese origin in the U.S. who have extremely sophisticated
vocabularies because they've had to pass the TOEFL and, more importantly, the GRE to enter
graduate school here, but they still lack practical fluency in English!

The Chinese system may provide a good example of how not to learn a foreign language, but doing
exactly opposite of what they do is not really optimal, either. Consider many Europeans who learn
English as a second language who can readily read, write, and speak English.

hamihaha -

Sthubbar,

I did not say chinese characters where beautiful neither where talking about calligraphy. I said
interresting. I now start to like Chinese calligraphy (after 5 years), but I still consider arabic
calligraphy as the top of the top, followed by french cursive.

I'm not a native Chinese speaker, and after 5 years, 2 years of hard work and 3 years of soft
daily reading I can read fluently Chinese. I don't know how many chinese characters or chinese
words I know, but when I read a magazine for example, I understand more than 95% characters, and
guess the meaning of the 5% others.

sthubbar -

imron, I am still using this method. I think their website is currently down. We are reading
stories and learning the new characters in the stories.

DrZero, I agree with your wish for fluency and not wanting to waste time on characters. When I
first started studying I refused to even listen to anyone trying to teach me characters. I kept
that philosophy for just about 2 years of studying. I can now see the "wall" you mentioned and
that is why I started aggressively studying characters around the end of last year.

hamihaha, wow, so I 羡慕你.

Since DrZero added some full disclosure, I can add a little more to enlighten what contributes to
my frustration. Outside of surfing the web, I seldom read for pleasure. There was a period many
years ago when I thought it was necessary to read so I went for about a year reading something
like 5 magazines cover to cover and at least one classic literature book every month. That
experience did not convince me that reading was something I like, I just learned that many of the
"classics" are really bad, see "The Magic Mountain" by "Thomas Mann".

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Learn Mandarin online - Where to eat scorpions in Beijing -

2008-11-09T08:56:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Food
Where to eat scorpions in Beijing
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deezy -

I'm not religious/very strict about being vegetarian...but I'm used to eating mostly beans, nuts,
fruits & veggies for health reasons - so if I can get some "dou zi" dishes on the regular...I'll
be pretty happy.

Just not real big on the starchy, meaty Beijing "bun & noodles" standard fare, to be honest. It's
akin to the Western "meat & potatoes" diet, which I'm not a big fan of, either...

I wouldn't mind trying some seafood and I'd also like to try scorpions at least once, though.
Anyone know where to try those at (preferably near BLCU)? And, are they any good?

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tlevine -

It's not near BLCU, but you can get weird stuff like scorpians at Wang fu jing.

deezy -

Quote:

It's not near BLCU, but you can get weird stuff like scorpians at Wang fu jing.

Good tip, thanks!

Quote:

Evening shoppers should not miss Dong An Men Avenue where a variety of street food-stalls sell
everything from noodles to dumplings. If feeling brave, try the Deep-Fried Scorpion or Grasshopper.

Not to mention maggot-ka-bobs! And pretty much anything on a stick, wow!

Along with some pretty modern malls too...

Pretty cool - I will check this area out if I get time! Thanks!

Wang Fu Jing Avenue
North of East Chang An Avenue, Chao Yang District
Beijing 100005
Nearest Train: Dong Dan Station; Wang Fu Jing Station

BTW, is there a good online map of Beijing anywhere? And with English on it would help too...

tlevine -

I don't know about online maps; I'd check Google Maps. I know you can maps from the kiosks on the
street.

I'm pretty sure that Wang fu jing is just one long street and that at one end there's this sort of
street food markety-like place.

roddy -

Off-topic for the 'vegetarian food' discussion perhaps, gentlemen

Online maps I think we have a discussion on already, try a search and if not start a new topic.

Edit: And they're not maggots, they're silkworms. Actually quite tasty for my money, I'd quite
happily eat them even when not showing off. Quite easily available either on a stick or a big
plate.

adrianlondon -

My fave map of Beijing, and pdf so you can save it to disk and use it on our laptop whenever you
like

http://www.mapmatrix.com/asia/02101.pdf

Being veggie in Beijing is fine if you don't take it too seriously. There are loads of lovely veg
dishes (steamed or flash fried with soy and/or oyster sauce) and many tofu dishes. However, some
of the sauces may be meat based. I suppose you could ask them to substitute cardboard for the pork
...

billiardsmike -

Thanks for the input Roddy. I've always hesitated to try the silkworms, and I'll eat just about
anything once. I'm even debating trying a dog meat place I just noticed.

For all of the people rushing to Wang fu jing, the culinary challenge section is on the
sidestreets to the west of the main drag, toward the southern end. The row of vendors on the
northern end end is interesting, especially if you don't mind a little La Duzi.

imron -

For China, I find Sogou maps to be better than Google maps. They seem to have greater detail when
it comes to building names, as well as the names for smaller streets/hutongs (especially when
still at a higher zoom level). It's only in Chinese though. And just to bring this post back on
topic, here's a Sogou map link to Wangfujing.

gougou -

The first time I had scorpion actually was at Quanjude (全聚德).

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

My fave map of Beijing, and pdf so you can save it to disk and use it on our laptop whenever you
like

That's a great map, thanks Adrian!

Quote:

Pretty cool - I will check this area out if I get time! Thanks!

To find the famous small-eats street, just walk up Wangfujing until you get to the intersection
where cars are allowed. Then turn left (east) and you will see the line of food vendors. The
street is called Donganmen, and becomes Donghuamen as you approach the Forbidden City.

It's a good area to kill a day, not only is there Oriental Plaza, but there are some other
interesting stores along Wangfujing, as well as Sun Dong An plaza. And if you feel like finishing
your day off with a movie, there is a theatre in Oriental Plaza as well as on Dongdan ave. to the
east of the plaza.

Oh, when you're out and about, watch out for the english and art "students".

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Chinese Class - 我给你说 - Page 3 -

2008-11-08T08:55:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
我给你说
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rootfool -

chinlearner83
skylee had explain it very clear in this thread:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=17605

Quote:

一句话，这是语言的约定俗成。

Apparently they're incorrect in grammer.But we all know and use them,so they're right.

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skylee -

I have this 2001 edition of "Xiandai Hanyu Cidian" (現代漢語詞典) published by the
Commercial Press of Beijing (ISBN 7-100-01777-7). Although it is a bit old, I hope it is authority
enough.

On 好 / 好不
　　

On 战败 / 战胜
　　

On 差点儿 / 差点儿没

skylee -

Do you guys see the photos? How do you like them? Anyone care to type them out?

HashiriKata -

Yes, I think the photos are fine, artistical enough to win competitions() and certainly clear
enough to read, so I don't think the text needs to be re-typed (unless some people'd have problems
accessing them).

gougou -

Split the discussion about language and its rules into this thread.

skylee -

This is so unnecessary.

HashiriKata -

Quote:

This is so unnecessary.

Completely agree! Not only unnecessary, it spoils appetites when done over-enthusiastically.

chinlearner83 -

Thanks for posting that. That's more of what I was going for since I was already fully aware that
this happens (hear it a lot, don't see it much though).

I once took a test that had a question that went something like this "XXX差一点没买到". Does
this mean the person did purchase or didn't purchase? The problem is when you hear something yet
still don't know what it means. If you have to add another sentence to make sense of what
happened, why speak that one in the first place? I feel as though I answered correctly (2 answers
didn't make sense at all and the other 2 'fought' between the did/didn't). I asked two people that
I would consider to be experts in Chinese (both native speakers with language doctorates) this
question yet got two opposing answers (and explanations). How would you answer?

lyndon_k -

Quote:

What does "你真不是个东西" mean?

this is a sentence that someone express angry emotion to somebody,and he/she thinks that this
person is bad.

Mugi -

Quote:

I once took a test that had a question that went something like this "XXX差一点没买到". Does
this mean the person did purchase or didn't purchase? ... How would you answer?

The person was able to make the purchase (but only just).

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Speak Chinese - makes sense in chinese, but not when translated to english?? -

2008-11-07T09:08:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
makes sense in chinese, but not when translated to english??
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viet_la_amour -

as i try to improve my chinese, i realize that it's going to be really hard. the main reason is
that once you get past the "ni hao" and "wo jiao..." and basics like that, the sentences get
complicated... for example: (i took this from one of the drama series that i was watching with
english subtitles.)

閃亮亮超級美少女

the way i broke it down was...:

閃亮【shǎnliàng】 brilliant; shiny; flare; glisten; twinkle.
亮【liàng】 bright; light.
超級【chāojí】 super.
美【měi】 beautiful; pretty
少女【shàonǚ】 maiden; girl.

and the english subtitles magically translated to something like:

閃亮亮超級美少女 = an extremely pretty teenager.

well, that sentence wasn't that hard. but you get what i mean right? they have all these
characters that mean the same thing and they put it together and it makes sense, but when i
translate it, it confuses me.

does anyone else have this problem? how do i learn stuff like this?

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Quest -

闪亮亮 sparkling [metaphor]
超级 super [meaningless catchy adjective]
美少女 pretty girl

zhuzhu -

i think u dont have to translate it word by word
just translate the meaning

viet_la_amour -

huh?? how do I "just translate the meaning"?? what goes into that?

zhuzhu -

oh, i mean
they put 閃亮&亮together for emphasis
閃亮=shining
閃亮+亮=extreme shining

so i think"extreme pretty girl"is a good translation, u got what the sentence mean, and translate
it in ur own words

studentyoung -

Quote:

閃亮亮超級美少女 = an extremely pretty teenager.

How about “an extremely dazzling pretty girl

闪亮亮here means the girl has a dazzling face.

Quote:

well, that sentence wasn't that hard. but you get what i mean right? they have all these
characters that mean the same thing and they put it together and it makes sense, but when i
translate it, it confuses me.

does anyone else have this problem?

It is a very common phenomenon in translation, and how well you can handle with it is one of
important criterions for others to judge your translation skills. For example, there is a phrase
in Chinese called “精神文明”, which Chinese people know its meaning very well. It might
confuses other, it is translated as “spiritual civilization”, because the meaning of
“spiritual” in English quite vague with some religious connotation. If it is translated as
“cultural civilization”, it might make more sense to foreigners, and the meaning is even
closer to its Chinese original. Here is one more example for you. One western translator once had
trouble with one Deng Xiao Ping 邓小平’s famous word, “发展才是硬道理”. As an old
China hand himself, he did understand the meaning, but he had no idea how to translate
“硬道理”, because “hard reason” makes no sense. Then one of his Chinese friends told
him, “Hey, how about ‘no innovation, no survival’?”

Quote:

how do i learn stuff like this?

First, you must understand both languages very well, so that you can read between lines.
Second, pay attention to the meaning deep in contexts, not just the literal meaning, during
translation.
Third, read more materials in both languages, and practice more in translation.

Thanks!

gougou -

It works the other way too:

What is Chinese for "Pussyfoot"?

HashiriKata -

Quote:

Originally Posted by viet_la_amour

makes sense in chinese, but not when translated to english??

If the Chinese we see makes sense in Chinese, then this is good enough; and whether it makes sense
or not when translated into English depends heavily on our competence as a translater.

viet_la_amour -

studentyoung, that was very helpful!! thanks lots.

does anyone else have any other tips? =D

DrZero -

Hardly anything in Chinese makes sense when translated word-for-word in English. Even 你好 is
weird if translated directly as "you good." Best just to accept it.

I'm sure this is true for any two languages to an extent, but I think you get more correspondence
with something like Spanish and English, where the languages are substantially closer on the
family tree. With two utterly unrelated languages like English and Chinese, why would there be any
similarities at all?

And yet, on my last trip to China, by which time I was understanding Chinese better than on
previous trips and could actually participate in a little conversation, I noticed a funny thing.
People were saying pretty much the same things that folks said back home! I guess people are
people. Mandarin had always sounded so mysterious and baffling, I guess a part of me had
subconsciously believed they must actually be saying something mysterious and baffling. Nope!

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Chinese Speaking - Why do caucasians love English? - Page 5 -

2008-11-06T08:56:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Why do caucasians love English?
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skylee -

Quote:

Originally Posted by imron

In some situations possibly even resulting in the unfortunate loss of life

Love the video. Thanks imron.

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gougou -

Sat's not funny.

Shadowdh -

Quote:

Why do Caucasians love English?

Obviously because English is the king amongst languages... I thought everyone knew that...???

adrianlondon -

Quote:

Why do Caucasians love English?

Because for many of them it's their mother tongue, and for many of the remainder (especially those
able to travel) it's a langauge they've been learning for many years.

In response to your specific opener, if you happened to speak fluent German, your friend would
probably be most comfortable in speaking German with you.

End of the day, relaxing in a bar, pick the easiest language kind of thing.

All makes perfect sense to me.

david1978 -

Quote:

Obviously because English is the king amongst languages... I thought everyone knew that...???

Oh. I thought Chinese was supreme. It's spoken by 1.3 billion people, ya know!? lol

Enough of this thread, my hair hurts!

yonitabonita -

Quote:

Yonitabonita, I'm sure the irony of this post has not been lost on you. On the one hand, the
original thread poster criticized a "Caucasian" for speaking to him in English, which I take to be
a criticism of his ethnic attachment to language, yet on the other hand, the poster makes a
sweeping and awkward generalization about all Caucasians.

Best to check that assuredness of yours then David, your irony was by far too subtle for me.

Quote:

Besides, this post spawned a number of silly responses,

On that I can agree.

I think this thread's dead.

sthubbar -

wushijiao, thanks for understanding me:

Quote:

I think the spirit of the original post was something along the lines of “I have come to this
school to learn Chinese. You have come here to learn Chinese. Why don’t you want to speak
Chinese?"

Gato, you are absolutely right!

Quote:

Sthubbar, you gotta relax.

Mugi can you elaborate?

Quote:

The conclusions you draw regarding what is pretentious and what is not are illogical.

If two Asians are in America seen speaking English to each other I don't think anyone would have a
problem with it.

When I used to attend classes, everyone knew that I only spoke Chinese. No one ever had a problem
with it, though some might have considered it odd. It is only this one individual. I have also met
two other Caucasians since I have been in China that are fluent in Chinese and yet have the same
belief system.

It is actually kind of interesting because my previous classmates know that I only speak Chinese,
they will be speaking English with each other and then when they turn to talk to me will switch to
Chinese.

Last thing is the point about people using their best language doesn't seem to hold up. I have
seen two Germans, two French, or two Mexicans talking to each other in a private conversation
using English. I don't think anyone ever considered them pretentious, or requested that they
please switch to their stronger mother tongue. The discrimination seems to be especially reserved
for two Caucasians speaking an Asian language.

muyongshi -

Quote:

I think this thread's dead.

Please! I missed the last 5 hours of heated debate but man...isn't the horse dead?

muscle -

Well, I've been expecting somebody to give the reason why I think it is, but surprisingly nobody
has. So I guess I'll just have to speak for myself, so to speak.

Maybe not for all people, but for people like me, there is the "rub off" effect. The accents of
those around me will rub off and I may find myself afflicted with their pronunciation.

Put me in a group of learners who have bad pronunciation, bad intonation and bad grammar, and
pretty soon my own skills will deteriorate. This even happens with English which is my native
tongue.

I suspect that this German fellow does not want to pick up or hear any non-native pronunciation.
He likely applies his rule to everyone who is not a native Chinese speaker.
He is just protecting himself so that he doesn't aqcuire any bad habits.

Another point:
It sometimes is difficult to speak with another learner, because you may know words that she
doesn't know, and she may know words that you don't know. But with native speakers of your target
language, you can use anything and everything that you have learned. You at least don't have to
hold yourself back. And anything you learn from a native speaker, you don't have to worry about
it. But something that sounds odd or that you hear from a non-native speaker, you have to check to
make sure whether it is correct or not.

Now just imagine that you are talking with another learner, and he starts using some word that you
don't know. And you ask him what it is and he tells you, and you go, "OK." And then he continues
on using that word and you understand him and by the end of the conversation he has used it like 2
dozen times and you'll never forget it. Then one day you use that word with a native speaker and
they don't understand you. And you try to explain but they don't jump from your explanation to the
meaning of it. So later you go and look it up and find out that it was wrong! Now you've got this
wrong word stuck in your head and you never want to let that happen again, so you ban speaking
Chinese with any other learners.

Shadowdh -

Quote:

Another point:
It sometimes is difficult to speak with another learner, because you may know words that she
doesn't know, and she may know words that you don't know. But with native speakers of your target
language, you can use anything and everything that you have learned. You at least don't have to
hold yourself back. And anything you learn from a native speaker, you don't have to worry about
it. But something that sounds odd or that you hear from a non-native speaker, you have to check to
make sure whether it is correct or not.

I like the first part of your post and agree somewhat but for the above I would just like to point
out that native speakers can also be guilty of not knowing some words (and in some cases quite a
few) and sometimes the language used by natives is not correct... a good example of this is
cockney from London... even for native English speakers it can be hard to know what the heck they
are saying... (eg I was down the jack at the shop when the guvnor opened his jack and someone
robbed him = I was at the shop on the corner when the shopkeeper opened his till someone robbed
him.) But if you use this in another part of the UK (heck London even) another native speaker will
probably not understand you... which makes me wonder is cockney a dialect?

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HSK - Financing Your Future: How to Economize and Save in Modern China -

2008-11-05T09:06:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Financing Your Future: How to Economize and Save in Modern China
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kdavid -

Financing Your Future: How to Economize and Save in Modern China

Recently I have been developing training materials for the school I work for, Sunshine
International Language Center (Harbin) and its partner Will-Excel TESOL. These materials aim to
make the transition from west to east as comfortable as possible for our new teachers.

Over the past few weeks I have noticed a lot of activity on this forum in particular and thought
that this material may be of some use to those of you considering (or already considered and now
in the process of) moving to China to teach English.

Since there are a number of parts to this article (some of which have yet to be written) it may
take a couple weeks for the entire article to be published. Nonetheless, this is a work in
progress and suggestions / feedback are welcome from those of you who have been in this great
country for awhile.

I hope this can help any newcomers to China

[Granted the prices quoted below are going to vary from city to city, the general cost of living
in China in general is going to be substantially lower than in the west.]

What often comes as a shock to most just-off-the-plane expats is the general, dirt-cheap cost of
living that China offers. Prices are generally a fifth of what they are back home, if not less. A
$5 beer back home, for example, is a meager 0.25 cents at your local “BBQ” hangout, the
average value meal at McDonalds $1.88 and spacious, furnished one-bedroom apartments can be found
for around $125 a month. In addition to these low prices can be included the fact that the average
western English teacher is making 300% or more than the city’s locals. It’s not hard to
understand why many expats fall into the trap of living an over-the-top lifestyle here in the
“Middle Kingdom”. The purpose of this article is to acquaint you, as a newcomer, with some
options so that you can make the most, financially, of your time in China.

In the beginning, new teachers often arrive in China with a little home currency. Someone who
brings $500 now recognizes that their once paltry sum of cash has changed from what used to be (on
average) less than a month’s rent back home to what many local Chinese make in three (or more)
months. This can lead to splurging.

New English teachers often fall into the trap of establishing expensive habits. These include, but
are certainly not limited to, taking taxis instead of public transportation, eating out every
meal, consuming familiar western products from brands of snacks and soda to fabric softener and
clothing. It is often easy for newcomers to convince themselves that these extra expenses are
worthwhile. For example, when considering the perceived hassle and uncomfortable process of
traveling by public transit in China, newcomers feel that the extra expenditure of taking a taxi
versus bus or subway is justified. Or, when noting that McDonalds or Subway is relatively cheap
when considering their monthly income, it is natural to think that the time it takes them to
prepare their own food, or the initial discomfort of ordering a meal in a Chinese at the local
restaurant, is not worth the extra trouble.

The Chinese have a saying very similar to that of the West’s “When in Rome do as the Romans
do.”: “ru xiang sui su”, which is (roughly) translated to mean “When you enter another’s
village you should adhere to their customs”. Most English teachers move abroad to study and
teach because they want to be immersed in a different culture. However, the pervasiveness of
globalization does not always force us to adhere to the ambitious goals we held before we left
home. It is easy for expats to be tempted by the convenience and familiarity that earning a high
salary provides: fast food, dry cleaning, quick transportation, VIP treatment at restaurants and
clubs, maid service, etc. However, it should be a priority to consider how living this type of
western lifestyle affects not only your experience in a China, but also your financial future.

[I should note that the following calculations are based on the experience of me and my colleagues
in Harbin and other major regional cities. Hectic mega cities such as Beijing, Shanghai and
Guangzhou will, of course, have a different, higher, cost of living.]

In some cities a foreigner living a modest lifestyle would struggle to spend more than 20 RMB a
day. Twenty RMB a day X 30 days in a month = 600 RMB a month. Take 600 RMB and subtract it from
one’s monthly salary of 4,500 = 3,900 RMB which is (approximately) $500 that could possibly be
put into a bank account and saved for graduate school, traveling, a car, a house, a family, etc.
Taking into account that some foreigners will indulge in western temptations on occasion we can
say that on the average foreigner living a modest lifestyle spends around 1000 RMB a month. In
this case, you can still save 3,500 RMB, or $400, a month. Living in China is an unheard of
financial opportunity for this reason: how much money would you have to save, or how much
economizing would you need to do in the West to be able to save $460 a month? Very few people, for
example, making $3,000 - $4,000 a month in the West can save $400 - $500 a month. However, in
China this is quite easy to do. The trick: “ru xiang sui su”.

That is not to say that foreigners must sacrifice their familiar comforts in order to save money.
Instead, learning how to economize on a Chinese budget while staying within your comfort zone is
easy. Below are some ideas.

1) Don’t frequent places that cater to foreigners. These types of restaurants, bars, clubs and
hangouts often charge four times more than normal local establishments.
2) Visit local markets and restaurants in the area around your home and take time to speak with
the people who work there. Making friends in the neighborhood has a number of benefits, from
getting the opportunity to practice your language skills to getting discounts on produce and a
heads up on what not to order off the menu.
3) Just because it is a western name brand does not mean it is of a better quality, it just means
that it is more expensive. Many western products are produced in Asia anyway. Regardless, China
produces some very high quality name brands of their own that are a fraction of the cost of their
western counterparts.
4) Time management pays in many ways. Get up half an hour earlier every morning and take the bus
or subway instead of a taxi. If you save 20 RMB everyday on taxis you are saving 600 RMB a month,
or 7200 RMB a year, which is equivalent to about $1000. You can save this type of money via time
management in many other ways (e.g. preparing your own meals if your school does not already do
this for you).

The last point that new English teachers should consider is taking advantage of the benefits their
school offers. Good schools offer a free private apartment, free meals on site, free work /
residence visas, free Chinese language classes, and free transportation to and from classes. When
researching schools online ensure that your school offers this type of package. Taking advantage
of these types of benefits can save you thousands of RMB a month, which can be put towards
personal savings, investments and future trips abroad.

Aside from your experience in China offering you a number of unforgettable memories and
experiences, it can also provide a solid financial foundation for future travels and endeavors.
Establishing good habits and finding a good school is key to successfully founding a solid
financial future.

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wrbt -

Quote:

this case, you can still save 3,500 RMB, or $400, a month. Living in China is an unheard of
financial opportunity for this reason: how much money would you have to save, or how much
economizing would you need to do in the West to be able to save $460 a month? Very few people, for
example, making $3,000 - $4,000 a month in the West can save $400 - $500 a month.

I disagree with this claim.

Of course it depends on where you live and everyone's situation is different but I submit the
majority of people who make $3-$4k per month but can't save $400-$500 are lacking personal finance
skills or the willingness to live under their means, and would struggle to save that amount in
China as well.

Take your 1000RMB/month budget for the foreigner with modest lifestyle in China... what exactly is
that lifestyle? A single person in the US making $3-$4/month probably has their own car and can
choose to live in a pretty nice townhome or even a house with a yard depending on where you are.

There are plenty of reasons to move to China to work but doing it thinking someone will save more
money by living on $125/month since one can't budget to save 10% of a Western salary in the West
isn't one of them.

kdavid -

Quote:

I submit the majority of people who make $3-$4k per month but can't save $400-$500 are lacking
personal finance skills or the willingness to live under their means

I agree.

Quote:

Take your 1000RMB/month budget for the foreigner with modest lifestyle in China... what exactly is
that lifestyle?

I take full advantage of what my school offers. I live in the private apartment provided by the
school (it's a 1 minute walk away from my school). We have an in-house cook who prepares lunch and
dinner for us. I eat breakfast on my own (pastries or such from across the street). I travel by
bus when needed. I go out a number of times throughout the month with friends and/or colleagues;
sometimes to places that cater to expats, sometimes to local hangouts. My life here is quite
normal.

Quote:

There are plenty of reasons to move to China to work but doing it thinking someone will save more
money by living on $125/month since one can't budget to save 10% of a Western salary in the West
isn't one of them.

The purpose of this article is to reach out to those who are considering or have already moved to
China to teaching English and provide some examples of how to construct a budget so that they can
save money while they're here. It's never too late to change your spending habits.

trevelyan -

This reads as if you're trying to convince people that your wages are pretty good, because it's
possible to save $500 a month. If so I agree with wbrt that it's dishonest. The salary might be
decent for English teaching in Harbin, but the emphasis is misplaced: you can save wherever you
are if you don't ever do anything, and most people will expect that they'll be able to buy a drink
at a cafe without blowing the budget.

If you're trying to offer a compelling reason for people to come to your school, I'd simply point
out that X in Harbin buys the same as X in other parts of the country. Is someone better off at
4000 in Harbin than 8000 in Shanghai? If you provide a place to live and the Shanghai job doesn't
that's about even. I'd emphasize the accuracy of the Harbin accent and try to attract students who
care about learning the language instead of just maximizing income.

That being said, the most effective way I know to earn money as a teacher is to set up private
tutoring gigs. What makes a school attractive for people who are here a while is staff policies
that enable extra work (classes arranged back-to-back, the same hours week after week, etc.)

Cheers

kdavid -

Quote:

This reads as if you're trying to convince people that your wages are pretty good, because it's
possible to save $500 a month. If so I agree with wbrt that it's dishonest.

I'll quote my response to wrbt above that states the aim of this article:

Quote:

Quote:

The purpose of this article is to reach out to those who are considering or have already moved to
China to teaching English and provide some examples of how to construct a budget so that they can
save money while they're here.

Also, I don't see how the article is dishonest. It's very possible to save $500 a month in China
while still living a modest lifestyle.

Again, the article is aimed at new teachers in China. You might call this "Financing in China for
English-teaching Dummies" as it attempts to spell out a basic introduction of what one will most
likely encounter over here.

wrbt -

I wasn't so much disagreeing with the intent, just the questionable logic that it would be easier
for someone who doesn't have the self-discipline to save 10% of their salary in the West would
suddenly have no problems saving 75% of their salary in China.

In the vast majority of cases the problem isn't the ability to do so, it's the willingness to live
within means. When you say:

Quote:

Living in China is an unheard of financial opportunity for this reason

It implies some amazing financial advantage to being in China earning money and living cheaply
that I just don't see. You're making an apples to oranges comparison with the people... if said
$3000-$4000 per month earner lived in a studio apartment, took the bus, and made did his/her share
of home cooking on the cheap like you're doing in China how much do you think he could save per
month? If the person in China had a 2BR townhome and owned a newer car could they save 75% of
their income?

cdn_in_bj -

I believe that those new to China will find your article helpful. However, you need to be careful
with the cost figures that you quoted as for the most part they do not apply to larger cities such
as Beijing, and Shanghai. For example, $125/month is not going to get you a "spacious, furnished
one-bedroom apartment" in Beijing - however, it may get you a room in a shared apartment. I
realize that your article is geared towards prospective teachers coming to your school, but if it
ends up getting published on the web it's going to get read by a wider audience. With some careful
rewording you could turn into a selling point for your school over others.

Quote:

Living in China is an unheard of financial opportunity for this reason: how much money would you
have to save, or how much economizing would you need to do in the West to be able to save $460 a
month? Very few people, for example, making $3,000 - $4,000 a month in the West can save $400 -
$500 a month. However, in China this is quite easy to do. The trick: “ru xiang sui su”.

I don't think the above adds anything to your article and should be taken it out. I agree with the
other poster that it sounds like a sales pitch.

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

if said $3000-$4000 per month earner lived in a studio apartment, took the bus, and made did
his/her share of home cooking on the cheap like you're doing in China how much do you think he
could save per month? If the person in China had a 2BR townhome and owned a newer car could they
save 75% of their income?

Yes, well said. Perhaps it could be noted that it is easier here to give up certain luxuries that
we take for granted in the west (for example, of owning a car), but this also depends on the
individual.

kdavid -

Quote:

It implies some amazing financial advantage to being in China earning money and living cheaply
that I just don't see.

@wrbt

Where in China are you located?

Quote:

If the person in China had a 2BR townhome and owned a newer car could they save 75% of their
income?

How many English teachers living in China fall into this category? I'd be inclined to say not too
many. Those who do, however, have probably already made the financial (among other) commitments to
live in China long-term and therefore already established a budget that permits them to do such
things.

Quote:

I wasn't so much disagreeing with the intent, just the questionable logic that it would be easier
for someone who doesn't have the self-discipline to save 10% of their salary in the West would
suddenly have no problems saving 75% of their salary in China.

If you're working and saving money in the West then you probably wouldn't find this article to be
of much use. This type of person probably also wouldn't be browsing the "Teaching English in
China" boards on the internet. That is, unless, you're looking at making a transition abroad.
Regardless, the article's intended audience is those who are (planning or otherwise) moving to
China to teach English. The article spells out how to save money and budget on an English
Teacher's salary.

However, I do agree with you, as I said above, when you stated that those with budgeting problems
back home will most likely have budgeting problems in China as well. Hopefully, those considering
moving to China to teach English may find some of the above advice useful.

@ cdn_in_bj

Thanks for your advice. I see where you're coming from and it makes sense.

Also, I do understand that the prices quoted within wouldn't work as well within a bigger city
such as Beijing or Shanghai (this difference is commented on in one or two places in the article).

Senzhi -

Can I suggest that if we do earnings/savings comparisons between different countries, we keep the
positions the same: teaching?

There's absolutely no point in comparing earnings/savings of a middle management position in the
EU/US with a teaching position here.

However, if we start comparing teaching earnings/savings, then I would definitely say the market
is more attractive in China, or any other country where TEFL is a big business.

I'm not sure about teacher earnings in the States, but I can definitely say that in the EU they're
in the lower base salaries. Not much savings to be expected, especially since many teachers are
not paid during holidays (which EU teachers have a lot!).

And then I'm not even starting about taxes in the EU ...

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Learning Chinese - Can someone please tell me how to say... - Page 2 -

2008-11-04T08:58:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Can someone please tell me how to say...
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kelly_web -

如果我说的有准确的地方，请提出来

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imron -

Shouldn't there be a 不 in there somewhere?

kelly_web -

oh ,my mistake ,如果我说的有不准确的地方，请提出来，imron ，thank you！！

muyongshi -

So this is a thread where we are willing to be corrected huh? Okay, I'll join in.

如果我是个笨蛋的老外，请你告诉我。

HashiriKata -

Quote:

Originally Posted by muyongshi

So this is a thread where we are willing to be corrected huh? Okay, I'll join in.
如果我是个笨蛋的老外，请你告诉我。

And I'm happy to oblige:

1. Structurally, I'd prefer the sentence without 你:
如果我是个笨蛋的老外，请告诉我。

2. Logically, I'd put it this way:
如果我是个笨蛋，你说什么也没用。

muyongshi -

Point well taken.

ChineseSpeaker -

I am a native Chinese speaker. I think it is better translated into:

说得不对的地方，请多指正.

or 如果我有什么地方讲得不对，请多这正.

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Learn Chinese - What's this word? - Page 2 -

2008-11-03T09:04:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
What's this word?
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Mugi -

I'm afraid I'm with tanhql - it is clearly 钟 zhong1.
It omission in the text is just an oversight. You can say it either with or without the 钟.
The meaning doesn't change whatsoever.

What I find more of a problem, is that the woman 文龙 is talking to changes mid conversation!!
You would have thought they could have at least dressed her in the same clothes!

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OneEye -

Quote:

I'm afraid I'm with tanhql - it is clearly 钟 zhong1.
It omission in the text is just an oversight. You can say it either with or without the 钟.
The meaning doesn't change whatsoever.

I went back and listened some more, and I'm hearing the 'zh' now. I think it's just not clearly
enunciated like the way she usually speaks, and that I didn't see it in the text and so wasn't
expecting it.

Quote:

What I find more of a problem, is that the woman 文龙 is talking to changes mid conversation!!
You would have thought they could have at least dressed her in the same clothes!

Yeah, there are some things like that in the videos that make me wonder if they had any budget at
all, but the quality of the material makes me willing to overlook it.

kelly_web -

here ，几点钟见面？or几点能见面？are ok
oral chinese , 几点能见面 is used more than 几点钟见面

JimmySeal -

I don't think it sounds like zhong at all. There is no fricative quality to it.

Could be neng2. But then again I'm just a beginner too.

imron -

If you listen to the recording, this word is pretty clearly zhōng, it's just that in normal
speech, you don't always enunciate every single part of the word so exactly. For example, compare
with a native English speaker saying things like "I dunno", or "I'm gonna". In fluid speech
certain things get glossed over. As another example, it's quite common (at least in more northern
regions) to hear people say 多少钱 as duōhao qián leaving out the 'sh' part, simply because
it's easier to do this and because explicity enunciating every syllable would sound awkward.

OneEye -

imron, I think that's what is happening. I still can't make myself hear it as zhōng without some
effort, but I think it is because I'm so used to hearing perfectly articulated Mandarin. But they
seem to be speeding up the speech to a more natural level as the course goes on, so I'm sure in a
month or two I'll go back and I'll know it's zhōng because I'll be used to quicker speech.

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Learn Mandarin online - part time math teacher? -

2008-11-02T08:59:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
part time math teacher?
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blake -

Hi,
Im planning to take 1 semester mandarin course next year, just wondering is it possible to me to
work part time as a math teacher in international school ? i have been working as math teacher for
2 years in one of international school here.

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Chinese School - Passage translation - Page 2 -

2008-11-01T10:11:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Passage translation
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tombio5 -

Wow, didn't expect a reply so fast

Sharing this letter?? hmm well this is the blog of a Chinese friend of mine who i care about so so
much .. but she doesnt feel the same if you know what i mean ... anyway i saw my name in there and
wanted to know aht it said

I generally do use machine translation but it is not very accurate, when i fine smth important
there is no substitute for a human translation

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Learning Mandarin - Room for Rent in Wudaokou: Summer 2007 -

2008-10-31T10:11:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Room for Rent in Wudaokou: Summer 2007
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doumeizhen -

As I've finished up school and need to be closer to work, I am subletting out my wudaokou
apartment until the end of the lease on August 21st. It is right across the South gate of Qinghua
University, right next to the wudaokou (about seven minutes from the chengtie station), and in
between the Language and Culture University and Beida. It is a 6th floor apartment that is both
furnished and has all the ammenities. The room is big, bright, and comes with an attached balcony.

The apartment (3 bdr.) is shared with two other people, a Chinese girl (designer) and an American
student.

The original rent is 1500, but if you're times match my schedule I am willing to negotiate.

Please message me if you are interested.

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Pnyin - Experienced Mandarin Tutor Available in Shanghai -

2008-10-29T10:07:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Experienced Mandarin Tutor Available in Shanghai
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butterlily -

Professional mandarin tutor in Shanghai with 6 years teaching experience. Bachelor degree with
Mandarin Certificate. Inter-active and result-oriented teaching style. Easy-going and like fun.
Remarkable improvements guaranteed for serious students willing to pay some efforts.

Previous and present students inlude person from England, U.S.A., Germany, France, Italy,
Australia, Finland, India, Sweden, Spain, etc.

Teaching Spoken Mandarin, Business Mandarin, Chinese Character, etc.

Flexible time and place. Please feel free to inquire.
mandarinz@126.com

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Speak Chinese - replying to this question -

2008-10-28T09:58:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
replying to this question
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wontonsoup -

when someone asks can u speak chinese?

how do i say i can only speak a little bit?

我只能说一点普通话? (doesn't sound right)

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Shadowdh -

我会说一点儿! should just about do it...

and perhaps 我就会说一点儿 for just speak a little... but others with more knowledge and
who are way better at Chinese than I will be able to help...

elina -

I think they all sound right:
我只能说一点普通话
我会说一点儿
我就会说一点儿 (as Shadowdh said, this sentence more emphasizes “just a little”)

Xiao Kui -

I think you can also just reply 一点点
Since you only know a little, why stress yourself with a long sentence? Even native speakers often
answer with short phrases or even just a word or two.

I still often answer this way even though I've studied for quite a while. It's good Chinese
modesty and it's a lot less pressure than telling people you're fluent when you're really just
proficient.

Songyi -

Like what other people posted earlier, you can just say 一点儿 or 一点点, which is really
口语. Saying a whole sentence in response to a question sounds very rigid and unnatural.

From my understanding (I'm not a native speaker) of 会 and 能, 会 is used to signify you have
the ability to do something (through learning; an acquired skill) and 能 is used for the other
uses of can, be able to.

So, to me, 我会说一点儿 makes more sense than 我能说一点儿。The latter one sounds
like you just got hit in the head and the paramedic asks ”Can you speak?“

Two more examples would be:
我会用筷子。
我能坐火车到东城吗？

kjmillig -

Keep it simple:
Yi dian-dian

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Study Chinese - I can't hear this bit clearly, can you? -

2008-10-27T10:08:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
I can't hear this bit clearly, can you?
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HashiriKata -

I was listening to a recording but got stuck at just one syllable (I think ). What is it? Please
fill the gap with the missing bit (You may have to listen to the attached file, I think):

她不是一个可以勤俭节 [ __ ] 的人，太浪费。

Thanks,

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grimacekid -

that is 约.
勤俭节约, if you familiar with this phase, you won't miss it!
cheers!

roddy -

节约？

Edit: Gargh, beaten to it

HashiriKata -

Thank you to you both. Yes, as usual, after seeing the answer I think I should have known .

As for the recording, I don't think the pronunciation of 约 is very precise, would anyone agree
with me?
-------
EDIT: After listening again a few more times, the pronunciation now seems quite clear. So, it's
really my lacking

roddy -

It was only because of the phrase that I was able to guess what it was. If it'd been a random
idiom or something I'd never heard of, I doubt I'd have had a clue.

chenpv -

yue1, absolutely. Though with a slight southern accent, the woman sounds perfectly standard and
clear, to me at least.

HashiriKata -

Quote:

yue1, absolutely.

Vielen Dank!
Yes, absolutely! you're right, as noted in my previous post!

nipponman -

I could hear 约 fine, i didn't hear 的人 very well though. Oh well, back to the grind!

lokki -

But, how should the last bit 太浪费 be interpreted ? According to the dictionaries 浪费 =
waste, squander, extravagant, so that would translate something like "she is too extravagant", or
"she wastes/spends too much (money)", but listening to it I get a feeling it could mean something
like "it is such a waste", "it is such a shame" - is this wrong?

HashiriKata -

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokki

so that would translate something like "she is too extravagant", or "she wastes/spends too much
(money)", but listening to it I get a feeling it could mean something like "it is such a waste",
"it is such a shame" - is this wrong?

Your interpretations are all reasonable, because the speaker didn't seem to be strict enough in
the structure of the sentences. I guess, however, that by saying "she's not a frugal, thrifty
person" the speaker must have then intended to mean, as you put it, "she wastes/spends too much
(money)"

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Chinese Speaking - HELP College assignment -

2008-10-26T10:00:00.001-07:00

> Chinese Culture > Society
*HELP* College assignment
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Alibi01 -

Hey, I need some help for any Chinese speakers out there, I am doing this survey for my class and
I need answers as soon as possible. Just answer the questions as best you can in Chinese. It
doesn’t have to be complex or anything, just write something quick. Thank you ahead of time for
your cooperation!

1。你见到你天天看的人时平常说什么？
2。那一天又见到那个人，说什么？
3。你见到很久没见的人时说什么？
4。对你来说，迎接同性的和异性的有什么不同？
5。男的人和女的人各有什么叫法？你把你所想起来的都写下。
6。你跟异性的人谈话的时候避免说什么词？
7。你跟比你年龄大的人谈话的时候避免说什么词？
8。你跟比你年龄小的人谈话的时候避免说什么词？

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About Ads (and how to hide them) -- Your message here

gato -

是你的功课吧？

imron -

哈哈，我也是这么想的。

HashiriKata -

Thank you for sharing, Alibi01!

Koneko -

gato & imron:

不是标题College assignment了吗?
不过这功课也蛮无聊的。

K.

gato -

但这些是调查问题呢，还是要学生自己回答的？更可能是后者吧。

Koneko -

解玲还需系铃人。

K.

Faith Xu -

1。你见到你天天看的人时平常说什么？
2。那一天又见到那个人，说什么？
3。你见到很久没见的人时说什么？
4。对你来说，迎接同性的和异性的有什么不同？
5。男的人和女的人各有什么叫法？你把你所想起来的都写下。
6。你跟异性的人谈话的时候避免说什么词？
7。你跟比你年龄大的人谈话的时候避免说什么词？
8。你跟比你年龄小的人谈话的时候避免说什么词？

hahah...answers
1. 吃过了吗?
2. 都还好吗?
3. 好久不见
4.同性握手, 异型拥抱
5. 称呼男人:先生, 女的称呼小姐, 女士, 太太
6. 避免问年龄
7. 避免直呼姓名
8. 避免说脏话....

suppose to be all right

gougou -

Quote:

4.同性握手, 异型拥抱

This is interesting. I was under the impression that hugging was not very common in China. Maybe
that's why I liked this movie so much!

Koneko -

Quote:

Originally Posted by me!

解玲还需系铃人

Apologies! The correct phrase should read 解铃还需系铃人

K.

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Chinese Studies - I Don't Feel Like Dancin' ~ Scissor Sisters - Page 5 -

2008-10-25T10:04:00.001-07:00

> Extras > Other cultures and language
I Don't Feel Like Dancin' ~ Scissor Sisters
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Page 5 of 5 First < 34 5

Koneko -

He he... Thank you!

DJ. K.

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About Ads (and how to hide them) -- Your message here

HashiriKata -

Bravo! 真是个乖孩子！

Koneko -

捧场做戏罢了，你也当真？！
怎么样我的表面功夫还可以媲美奥斯卡金像奖吗？

DJ. K.

Koneko -

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy

1) Include, in English, some information about the song - what style, when was it recorded, by
who, where, why do you like it, etc. Don't just say 'here's a nice song', because not everyone
will agree, and you can't expect people to listen to stuff without giving them a reason.
2) Include a link to somewhere it can be downloaded / heard so people can listen to it
3) NOT upload the song itself - uploads are for materials not available elsewhere, and directly
useful for study. If you have something unique which isn't available elsewhere, let me know. Music
downloads use up too much bandwidth.
4) If you are posting the lyrics, a pinyin version or English translation will earn you the
endless gratitude of Chinese learners globally, and substantially increase the chances of anyone
listening to your recommendation.

I.I Indie
I.II 2006
I.III Madonna
I.IV England
I.V Because she's British now.

II See here

III N/A

IV As II

Dedicated by DJ. K.
Victim of autocracy

Koneko -

Ditto but the followings:-

I.I Pop
I.II 2000
I. IV USA

II See here

IV N/A

DJ. K.
Victim of the autocracy

Koneko -

Ditto but

I.II 1998
II See here

DJ. K.
Victim of the autocracy

Koneko -

Ditto but here

DJ. K.
Victim of the autocracy

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Chinese Pinyin - Hejia binguan 和家宾馆 – good hotel option next to BLCU - Page 2 -

2008-10-24T09:59:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Hejia binguan 和家宾馆 – good hotel option next to BLCU
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

adrianlondon -

Quote:

queen size bed

That's a double. A small double, but a double nonetheless.

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